231 in a 45 Colt

Longone

Active Member
Seems to be wheel gun weekend so I loaded a batch of 45 Colt with Unique as I normally do. It set me to wondering about 231 Winchester powder, I've read in the Lyman manuals that it does produce good groups but I haven't read elsewhere of people using it. I'm not looking to make anything other than comfortable shooting ammo with the RCBS 255 grain bullet, so if you have used 231 and have had good results I would appreciate hearing about it.

Thanks, Longone
 

Ian

Notorious member
For standard SAA loads it's really tough to beat Bullseye. Titegroup is also very good, but I prefer it for lighter bullets. 231 used to be an excellent powder, pretty much THE powder for .45 ACP and also very good in .45 Colt, but it changed 10-15 years ago and doesn't seem to burn as consistently in the big cases (very position-sensitive). You can tell the difference in POI even at short range between the shot fired right after drawing from a holster to level, and the next shots fired keeping the revolver level.
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
On the subject of 231, seems I've read that it is the same powder as HP 38. Could someone corroborate.
 

Longone

Active Member
I've burned a lot of 231 in ACP but never tried it in the 45 Colt, started with Unique and just stayed there. 7 grains with the 255 RCBS bullet in my Ruger shoots pretty good considering who's holding it.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
My brother and I shot his Henry Big Boy in .45 Colt today. We were shooting the Lee 200gr rfn with 6.2gr of Redot.
They ran just under 1000fps
We were shooting a 10 1/2" steel plate at 50 yards offhand. Super fun!
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
yep same powder always has been.

I was just thinking about 231 the other day, my dad pretty much only used 231 in everything handgun related.
but I have never seen any shot shell data for the stuff.
I have data for bulls-eye and titegroup and all kinds of stuff but have never seen any for 231.

anyway.
I have shot a bunch of 231 in the 44 mag, and see no reason why @7grs. under a 250 wouldn't work fairly well in the 45 colt.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Use WW231 a few years ago when Unique was impossible to find locally. Shot well, smooth recoil and no problems.
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
I use HP-38 (same powder) in both 45 Colt and 44 WCF. 7.1-7.3 grns in both. 44 WCF 210/215 grn; 45 Colt 255 grn. Go to loads in both my Colt SAA clones at this point
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I have been using lots of HP38 lately. Burned up a 8 pounder already so I had to replace it. Good for much of the handgun shooting I do.
 

Longone

Active Member
Thanks for all the input fellas, I'll get to working up a load for this with 231 and let you know how it goes.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
about 4 years ago, a friend of mine who was just starting the reloading gig, choose 231 for 9mm after he did some reading. He bought a 4 pound jug and offered me a pound of it, cuz he figured 3 lbs was a lifetime supply, what a silly newbie. I tried to turn him down, but when that failed, I took the gift and put it on the shelf, and thought some day I could give him a good razzing about it. I'm still waiting :confused:
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
about 4 years ago, a friend of mine who was just starting the reloading gig, choose 231 for 9mm after he did some reading. He bought a 4 pound jug and offered me a pound of it, cuz he figured 3 lbs was a lifetime supply, what a silly newbie. I tried to turn him down, but when that failed, I took the gift and put it on the shelf, and thought some day I could give him a good razzing about it. I'm still waiting :confused:

Maybe you should make him an offer on the 2 1/2 lbs he has left. Don't want it to go to waste.
 

USSR

Finger Lakes Region of NY
One of John Linebaugh's favourite loads for the .45 Colt is 8.0gr of W231 behind a 255gr SWC. He says it's good for 900 fps, so not a particularly hot load.

Don
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
One of the big things about WW231 in a big case, is that the powder is not coated or treated in any way. It is the raw material all of the "ball" powders made by Olin use. So it is not position sensitive, very easy to ignite and very consistent from lot to lot. The only residue is the graphite blended in to make it run through automatic machines (the only difference between it and the older 230P) and any unconsumed carbon.
 

USSR

Finger Lakes Region of NY
One of the big things about WW231 in a big case, is that the powder is not coated or treated in any way. It is the raw material all of the "ball" powders made by Olin use. So it is not position sensitive, very easy to ignite and very consistent from lot to lot.

Ah, did not know that. That would explain why magnum primers are used with W571 and W296, but not with W231. Thanks.

Don
 

Ian

Notorious member
One of the big things about WW231 in a big case, is that the powder is not coated or treated in any way. It is the raw material all of the "ball" powders made by Olin use. So it is not position sensitive, very easy to ignite and very consistent from lot to lot. The only residue is the graphite blended in to make it run through automatic machines (the only difference between it and the older 230P) and any unconsumed carbon.

Hmm. Have you bought any recently? Reason I ask is the "old" stuff, ca. 1990s, is different in both appearance and performance than the newer stuff. I have a bottle of HP-38 and several bottles of WW231 made in the last 10-15 years and as near as I can tell the contents are identical other than lot numbers. Compared to the keg of WW231 I had before that, all the more recent production powder is much glossier, leaves a lot more carbon for the same load, and burns a lot less consistently when loaded to equivalent velocities in .38 Spl, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt. A few years ago I did some chronograph work with the newer powders because I my old keg was near empty. I wanted to see if the Hodgdon and Winchester stuff was indeed exactly the same product as I had read, and also wanted to make sure my "pet" loads were still going to work just as well with the new powder. I have to say I was very, very disappointed. The new stuff exhibited position sensitivity in the extreme in both the revolver cartridges, and I never could get it to group as well in my .45 autos as the old stuff. I did several back-and-forth comparisons between HP-38 (one lot), WW231 (two lots), and my old lot of WW231 to check velocities, SD, and groups, finding position sensitivity and group dispersion to be very unfavorable with all the new powders. Average velocity, as I recall, wasn't much different between all of them, less or equal to the usual +/- 5%, but the SD numbers did not impress favorably.

Needless to say I was extremely disappointed since 231 is a great midrange handgun powder and is absolutely ideal for heavy .38 loads and .45 Autos using 220-230 cast loads, or maximum-level 200 grain loads. What I ended up doing was switching to IMR PB and had better results after re-working loads for all three cartridges. Then, naturally, IMR discontinued that powder during one of the great shortages and I didn't have a chance to stock up, so here it is 2018 an I'm still looking for a good replacement for 231.
 

USSR

Finger Lakes Region of NY
Then, naturally, IMR discontinued that powder during one of the great shortages and I didn't have a chance to stock up, so here it is 2018 an I'm still looking for a good replacement for 231.

AA#2?

Don
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
accurate powders are really good.
if I wasn't stocked on powders so much I think I would be taking a real hard look at the Vectan powders that Graf and son's is carrying.

I might be looking at them anyway.
I understand that the Alliant-Dot powders are going to go through another [newer cleaner] change here pretty soon.
I'm fairly certain this means another change in their density.
while that's not a huge concern in a 38 special, it becomes problematic when your trying to fill a shot shell enough for the wad to sit on top of it and stretch up to the case mouth far enough for a consistent crimp depth.
it's also a pain to have to make or modify another set of powder bushings.