45-70 and a dewc.

strtspdlx

New Member
so I finally got my hands on a marlin (not real) 1895 gbl, it shoots well and ive been wanting to find a decent load for a dewc mold I got from noe. its a 460 diameter mold that throws a double ended 175 grain wadcutter, it is extremely pleasant to shoot and so far I can hit a 12" steel plate at 100 yards nearly every time with buckhorn sights. ive been having an issue with unburnt powder however. I decided to use h322 to start since I have a fairly large amount of it. at 43 grains its yielded an average of about 1350fps with an ES of about 175. needless to say it is too slow and not enough powder to get complete combustion of the powder. I was getting large quantities of unburnt powder everywhere causing chambering issues after 10 or so rounds. so I took a step back and was going to try some type of wad or filler. Then I read about chamber ringing, which put this project on hold again. I asked a seemingly knowledgable person on another site for some help and he recommended to start at I believe 3 grains of bullseye and work up to possibly 6 and see how that worked out. I have yet to run the starting loads over a chroonogrpah but they do make it out of the 18.5" barrel. more or less I was curious to see if anyone had ventured into something like this before. I did get my hands on some trailboss, I also have accurate #7, unique, imr-4198 and hopefully ill get my reloader 7 and 3031 back soon. I'm sure people on here are as knowledgable as I need, and I'm positive theyre more knowledgable then me,,so I thought it would be wise to rask for assistance again, just to be safe.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I would not go much slower than Unique. Bullseye isn't a bad choice either. I would need to look at some data before making a recommendation on charges.
A 185 gr 45-70? Wow. That is a very interesting bullet. Got any photos?
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
AIRC this is the old collar button mold.


that's a lot of powder to only get 1300 fps from.
also the ES is wide enough to actually see vertical stringing on the target [of almost 2"s I'd imagine]
H-322 is a good cast bullet powder if it is held in place against the primer with a filler but in this case you just ain't got enough weight to clean up the burn.[probably even with a filler]

I don't know how fast your looking to go or what.
but going to a fairly high amount of unique would get you there, start at 12 [@1400fps] and keep going.
[15 would normally be a stopping point with a 300gr bullet in a model 95 or 86]
or use the 4198 at the same amount as your at now with the 322.
your velocity will most likely be over 2,000 fps with the 4198.

lyman even recommends a Dacron filler with these type of loads in the 45-70 case.
even when using up to a 500gr bullet.
so going to an even faster powder to lower the velocity into the 'plinking' type range would actually be a good idea.

either way knowing the speed your looking for would be a big help.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Use a medium shotgun powder, and no filler. Bullseye would also be good and have lower SD than Unique (most likely), but you can probably fit four to six maximum charges in one case.

The various fillers have their place and can be used safely if you do it right, but trying to use a filler to make H322 burn in a .45/70 under a featherweight bullet is not a good idea unless that's the only powder and bullet you have, and it's go to war time.

I gave away most of a can of Trail Boss, had no use for the stuff. Good idea, but it needs more work. If the burn rate was about like WW231 it would be perfect, but it's more like Titewad or Clays.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
there is a point where Unique needs a filler to do it's best work too.
titegroup could get the pick depending on what your looking for too and would be right at home here.
if speed is the idea, a bunch of 748 or even a case full of 4064/aa-2230 type powder could be a decent balance of velocity and cleanliness.
 

Chris

Well-Known Member
I'd be looking at Unique, the above advice for 12 grain start is a good one. Unique and cast has always been accurate for me. I've been wanting to buy a collar button mold so I will follow your progress with interest.
 

strtspdlx

New Member
I'm looking for a fun load that I can shoot at 50-100 yards without issue and not have a headache after 50 rounds. ive been shooting at roughly 100 yards and I can hit my 12" plate without an issue for the most part. and id like to use this so I can save my lead and smokeless powder. I'm not overly concerned with velocity, I figured at this weight it should go over 2k fps in a slow burning powder, in pistol powders I probably shouldn't go much over 15-1600fps in fear of over pressure right?
 

Chris

Well-Known Member
well that is not a collar button as I wrongly assumed it to be. I never shot anything that light but I would keep that under 1400 to start with and see how it goes. I do know what you mean about headaches, I used to hunt with max loads behind a 410 cast, I could take the recoil on the shoulder fine but it would snap my neck and give me a headache after 10 rounds off the bags. .45/70 whiplash. I still want to make a standing rest to shoot the hard hitting rounds.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
after seeing the pic. I think the lower velocity's would be best.

cutting trapdoor 300gr loads should give you some ideas, as would just stealing fast powder loads from the 45 colt to start from.
 

strtspdlx

New Member
ill have to look up some more data and see what I can come up with, so far I haven't seen pressure signs even with 53 grains of h322 behind a 330gn bullet. but that's as hot as ive gone in the weight of bullet. I accidently loaded my 405s too hot and had the first 5 shot group running about 1800fps. needless to say I don't load 405s anymore. too easy to get a headache. I don't mind the shoulder part at all. its the fact after so many shots I start getting a headache, all the extra space around my brains doesn't help either.
 

Eutectic

Active Member
I've posted on this strtspdlx thread hoping he's shot that full wadcutter more at distance and gives us a report ... Staying on a 12" gong with open sights is a good start...

So much has been said about full wadcutters and accuracy past 50 yards or so being horrible. I've thought for a while to do some comprehensive testing both rifle and handgun. I've mentioned the modified 10" barreled Colt New Service I have that is S O O accurate! Even with the commercial cast junk I've pictured. These are some old National bullet commercial cast I got for a song even to use for Sb content if needed. Now this isn't a 'full wadcutter' but it's pretty darn square! I use my 4Q 3.2 lube and Saeco 058.jpgI've shot it over 400 yards in that Colt Auto Rim and it's mighty accurate! As good as anything I've shot in it. I've got a 3 cavity Saeco 058 mold for it as well. I may bob off some .25 or .30 bullets to a full wadcutter and see what I get??

Pete
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
sometimes those little square shaped bullets will fool you.
I have shot a 165gr rnfp out of my 45 colt levergun on top of 4.5grs of cays out to 200 yds a few times.
they stay stable that far out somehow.
they are bigger around than they are long.