RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Found a very nice H&R Topper in .22 Jet today, with dies, cases and lots of owner's data for jacketed. Any one have an experience with cast in this old gun? Ric
Any cast bullet experience with the .22 Rem Jet out there?
- Thread starter RicinYakima
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RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I have had several Hornets in different rifles, but never got good accuracy out of any except my present Savage 23D. Rifle is short light and nice scope,, so hope to have it teach me what it likes for cast bullets at less than 2000 f/s.
Jeff Michel
Member
I had the same gun, before I shot much cast. Shot 40 grain Hornady SP very well. Cases stretched a bunch IIRC.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I am hoping to neck size only, and use the fire formed cases to center the bullet. It has been a few years since I worked the Hornet with cast, so have to find the "stuff" to make cast bullets.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
First cast loads today, since most of you guys are having bad weather, I was lucky enough to go shooting.
This was the best load and bullet Lyman #225438 and 3.0 grains of Bullseye.
This was the best load and bullet Lyman #225438 and 3.0 grains of Bullseye.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
This was a failure, even thought the bullet on weights 3.5 grains more, it is 0.045" longer, and most were tipping and key-holing on the target at 50 yards. That 1 in 16 twist is right on the edge at anything over 40 grains.
Wonder how fast you need to go with the 415 to stabilize it.
I can assure you that the 438 in a 10" K hornet Contender at around 1500 fps is overkill for tree rats. Tends to make very, very large exit wounds. Like almost cuts em in half with shoulder shots.
I can assure you that the 438 in a 10" K hornet Contender at around 1500 fps is overkill for tree rats. Tends to make very, very large exit wounds. Like almost cuts em in half with shoulder shots.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Brad, From my experience I don't think shooting it faster will stabilize it. These appear to be about 1450 f/s, and from working with 1 in 16 Hornets', if it doesn't at that speed it probably will not. Plus it is faster than what I wanted. Shoots 40 grains Speer jacketed just fine at 2750 f/s so am looking for a sub-sonic load for sage rats and grey diggers. Ric
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Total case capacity is about 14 grains of H110. Case expansion at 12.5 grains of H110 makes extraction hard and runs 2900 f/s. When the Midway shipment arrives will start working on the J-bullet load. Used my last 40 grainers with 14.0 grains of Norma 200 for 2750.
Eutectic
Active Member
+1 on Lamar's post......My old and first Savage .22 Hornet has a 1 in 16" and it shoots the 37gr NOE (225107) copy from 1100 to 3000! It shoots 225415 great too at 2500.
Pete
F
freebullet
Guest
Wow, that's a unique looking cartridge. Can't say I'd ever heard of it.
Mr. Khornet here is really fond of the noe 37gr. He gave me a few samples to try, going to fling them from a 223 bolt though.
Thanks for sharing Ric.
Mr. Khornet here is really fond of the noe 37gr. He gave me a few samples to try, going to fling them from a 223 bolt though.
Thanks for sharing Ric.
Ian
Notorious member
Ric, if you have any Titegroup, you might try that. I've tried a bunch of powders for .223 subsonic loads and while it won't make up for a bullet that's too long for the twist, it tends to burn a little more consistently at low speed than Bullseye. I know Paul has mentioned bullet weight a lot regarding the 14 and 16-twist rifles and it seems that 40 grains is pretty much the limit of stability at any speed.
Not the 22 Jet but similar and may have some relevance, my experience with the 218 Bee I just love this little cartridge.
The photos in this post are hosted on that awful photobucket which changed its term and conditions leaving many good forum threads bereft of their pictures. However there are free browser add ons that allows you to view photobucket hosted links, I use Firefox and the add on is called "Photobucket Hotlink" extension and load it, all the lost photofeckit photographs will now be visible again in the post.
I am not recommending that people use photobucket again but this is an effective workaround to overcome their vindictive pique and restore photo threads to their former glory.
I know that their are such add ons for Firefox, Opera and Chrome browsers, not sure about others.
I am a big fan of Martini action rifles with currently a couple of dozen of so in my collection. I am also a fan of interesting calibres with a special affection for small and large bores. So when I was offered this rifle as part of a collection I was buying a year ago I just couldn't say no.
This Martini is an interesting rifle and is probably a one off, perhaps an apprentice piece when you see all the jobs that had to be done to make it.
The receiver is a small frame Francotte with the action being by BSA, now as you will know these Martini actions were fitted with two part stocks, for end and but. However this one has been fitted into a one piece stock that originally came from a Vickers Martini action rifle. To fit this stock to the receiver a tang has been added to the rear of the receiver, the tang has been drilled and tapped to take a BSA rear peep sight which came with the rifle. The lever has also been cut off and replaced with a new one to fit the stock. Internally the action has been polished and break very cleanly at 3 1/2lbs. The stock itself has been refinished, chequered and an end cap fitted to the half pistol grip.
The action has been fitted with a Lothar Walther .22" barrel that has been chambered for the lovely little .218 Bee cartridge with a ramp and blade foresight.
The rifle came with a rather large Zomz scope with I replaced with this little Dinox 2.5-4 scope from my collection which sets the rifle of nicely I think. So here are some pictures of the gun:
As well as being a Martini the calibre was very interesting as I have fondness for these early CF small bore cartridges that were all trying to better the 22 Hornets performance and knocking at 3000 fps. I have played with most of them over the years and it was nice to get a Bee back in my hands.
My initial load was just 2 1/2 gns Vihtavuori N310 under a NOE 225107 37Gr GC giving me just under 1500 fps and 1/4" 25yrd groups however I wanted to up that velocity so yesterday I shot some different loads.
These were loaded with 4 1/2 gns Vihtavuori N320 under the same NOE 225107 37Gr gas checked boolit cast from range scrap BHN 12, sized to .225" and lubed with 2500.
The photo below shows, right to left, loaded 218 Bee round, empty case, a couple of lubed and sized boolits, a couple of as cast boolits and a 315299 boolit along with a 30-40 Krag case for scale.
These chronographed at a tad over 2000 fps and gave the following 100 yrd group shot in a stiff wind blowing right to left.
Another keeper.
The photos in this post are hosted on that awful photobucket which changed its term and conditions leaving many good forum threads bereft of their pictures. However there are free browser add ons that allows you to view photobucket hosted links, I use Firefox and the add on is called "Photobucket Hotlink" extension and load it, all the lost photofeckit photographs will now be visible again in the post.
I am not recommending that people use photobucket again but this is an effective workaround to overcome their vindictive pique and restore photo threads to their former glory.
I know that their are such add ons for Firefox, Opera and Chrome browsers, not sure about others.
I am a big fan of Martini action rifles with currently a couple of dozen of so in my collection. I am also a fan of interesting calibres with a special affection for small and large bores. So when I was offered this rifle as part of a collection I was buying a year ago I just couldn't say no.
This Martini is an interesting rifle and is probably a one off, perhaps an apprentice piece when you see all the jobs that had to be done to make it.
The receiver is a small frame Francotte with the action being by BSA, now as you will know these Martini actions were fitted with two part stocks, for end and but. However this one has been fitted into a one piece stock that originally came from a Vickers Martini action rifle. To fit this stock to the receiver a tang has been added to the rear of the receiver, the tang has been drilled and tapped to take a BSA rear peep sight which came with the rifle. The lever has also been cut off and replaced with a new one to fit the stock. Internally the action has been polished and break very cleanly at 3 1/2lbs. The stock itself has been refinished, chequered and an end cap fitted to the half pistol grip.
The action has been fitted with a Lothar Walther .22" barrel that has been chambered for the lovely little .218 Bee cartridge with a ramp and blade foresight.
The rifle came with a rather large Zomz scope with I replaced with this little Dinox 2.5-4 scope from my collection which sets the rifle of nicely I think. So here are some pictures of the gun:
As well as being a Martini the calibre was very interesting as I have fondness for these early CF small bore cartridges that were all trying to better the 22 Hornets performance and knocking at 3000 fps. I have played with most of them over the years and it was nice to get a Bee back in my hands.
My initial load was just 2 1/2 gns Vihtavuori N310 under a NOE 225107 37Gr GC giving me just under 1500 fps and 1/4" 25yrd groups however I wanted to up that velocity so yesterday I shot some different loads.
These were loaded with 4 1/2 gns Vihtavuori N320 under the same NOE 225107 37Gr gas checked boolit cast from range scrap BHN 12, sized to .225" and lubed with 2500.
The photo below shows, right to left, loaded 218 Bee round, empty case, a couple of lubed and sized boolits, a couple of as cast boolits and a 315299 boolit along with a 30-40 Krag case for scale.
These chronographed at a tad over 2000 fps and gave the following 100 yrd group shot in a stiff wind blowing right to left.
Another keeper.
Eutectic
Active Member
Nice post dromia!
I have a small BSA Martini that was my father's. He re-barreled it unbeknownst to me sometime many years back to a .22 Hornet. I think Buhmiller did the work for him. The rifling configuration just begs of cast bullets (the grooves are deeper than a normal .22 centerfire bore). It is headspaced too tight however. I shot it some by machining some cases to a .005" thinner rim thickness. But....... the extractor was never modified from the .310 Cadet so it was a pain to say the least!
Your post reminded me of my thoughts back when I played with that little Martini! I considered rechambering to .218 Bee or even the .22 Rem Jet mentioned in this thread...... whichever was the best extractor fit. I could cure the tight headspace at the same time!
Question: Do your .218 Bee chambers use the original .310 Cadet extractor? Thanks.
Pete
I have a small BSA Martini that was my father's. He re-barreled it unbeknownst to me sometime many years back to a .22 Hornet. I think Buhmiller did the work for him. The rifling configuration just begs of cast bullets (the grooves are deeper than a normal .22 centerfire bore). It is headspaced too tight however. I shot it some by machining some cases to a .005" thinner rim thickness. But....... the extractor was never modified from the .310 Cadet so it was a pain to say the least!
Your post reminded me of my thoughts back when I played with that little Martini! I considered rechambering to .218 Bee or even the .22 Rem Jet mentioned in this thread...... whichever was the best extractor fit. I could cure the tight headspace at the same time!
Question: Do your .218 Bee chambers use the original .310 Cadet extractor? Thanks.
Pete
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Not dromia, but played with BSA cadets a lot over the years. The .310 Cadet case rim is just a few thousandths larger than the 218/25-20/32-20 case and supposedly thinner rimed. However US made brass is thinner than SAMMI spec's so if you rechamber you will only have to deepen the extractor by a few thou's. Plus this case size chambers easily under a scope and ejects well under a scope, something the .357 Mag cases do not do sometimes. HTH, Ric
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Welcome here, Dromia. Glad to have you. I was MtGun44 on the other
site. I always enjoyed your posts.
What a neat little rifle and what an amazing amount of nice work to get it to that
final state! It is amazing what one can do with enough time and skill.
I have a Savage 340 in .22 Hornet that I haven't had time to work with yet, but watch threads like
this with interest.
Bill
site. I always enjoyed your posts.
What a neat little rifle and what an amazing amount of nice work to get it to that
final state! It is amazing what one can do with enough time and skill.
I have a Savage 340 in .22 Hornet that I haven't had time to work with yet, but watch threads like
this with interest.
Bill