Appropriate uses for Linotype

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
I recently acquired some lino and never used it am curious as to the better applications for such an alloy. Also have lots of WW and soft lead. I cast 22, 7MM 30, 35, 44 calibers in rifles. Strictly higher velocities?
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Not so much velocity but pressure.
I'm a firm believer in lower Sb alloys heat treated. Lino is, to me, a sweetener for specific applications.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I agree with Brad. In addition much can depend on what the target is and what is expected of the bullet once it get's to the target. Sb is quite brittle, alloys such as lino with it's 12% Sb are a poor choice for steel targets or where expansion without breaking apart is the goal. As a sweetener for other alloy's lino is a valuable commodity for casters.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
since ww's are getting harder to find having other booster alloys around can come in handy.
I started making a ww like alloy by mixing lead to lino at a 3-1 ratio then mixing it with ww's at a 1-1 ratio.
this just extends the @3% alloy even further but gives me options later where I can soften or harden the alloy to suit the mold a little better.

much of my casting alloys are just made up from that base alloy to tune the nose diameter or to strengthen the area in front of the drive band, for a better barrel fit as things slam forward, or so that the long bore rider will grip the rifling better.
sometimes when I'm telling people that my 1900 fps alloy is 4/6/90 and that my 2400 fps alloy is 1/3/96 that little fact goes right over their head, and they seem to also miss the part about the design elements that allow that to happen.

so does a stronger alloy work better or does a heat treated [quenched] alloy work better?
well the answer is yes.... and sometimes more of both.
the question is more what are you needing to overcome?
forward stresses or rotational shearing when trying to get the bullet to survive it's first inch of travel.
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
I must confess, the pressure numbers of load data is something I haven't studied much. Need to revisit the manuals. So generally a medium speed powder will develop more pressure than a slower I suppose. Just thinking out loud, I'm at work at the moment, don't have my manuals at hand.

An alloy sweetener is what I'm thinking.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Don't forget to look at what fiver mentioned about fit and bullet size. A higher Sb alloy will usually cast a bit larger. This can give a better fit on bore rider noses.

Range scrap is my common base alloy. I have added monotype in a 1-10 ratio with good results.

Match the alloy to the application.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
no,no,no....no.
don't fall into the pressure trap.

think about it like this.
your bound to 50-K psi
'the load' 13gr red-dot is 45-K and you get 1500 fps.
18grs of 2400 is 35-K and you get 1850 fps.
30grs of 4895 is also @ 35-K and you still get 1850 fps.
45grs of 4831 is about 45-K but you get close to 2400 fps.
a softer alloy works better as your velocity increases but the pressure stays in the same area.
how?
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
I use it as a sweetener,
I have ingots of jacketed range pick and commercial cast bullet range pick ingots. I will mix these 2 to 1 for light plain base loads.
I use 1 to 1 for larger caliber 30 & up that will be gas checked and shot to 1900 fps
I use 1 to 1 plus some Lino ( something like 8 lbs of the 2 different range ingots And 1 lb of Lino = 17 lbs for A 20lb Lee pot for fast sub 30 caliber .222 mag, 223, 243, & the 25's
 
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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I use it for almost all my match bullets. Why? Consistency! Last spring I cast 275 +/- Ideal 308284's. There were about 10 visual rejects. One hundred fifty five were =- .1 tenth grain at 206.4 or .5; one hundred four were 206. 6 or .7 or .8.; eleven were 206. 2 or .3. Five were less than 206.2 grains.

If the bullet fits the throat, not much else matters.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Yep, I still have two 10 Kilo bar of fresh stuff. After it has gone through the pot and cut off a sprue or spills, etc. a few times, it goes to the used lino box. That gets added to reclaimed shot at about 25%, since tin is getting so expensive.

Since lino goes from solid to liquid with no "pasty" phase, it is easy with a single cavity mould and ladle pouring.
 

Ian

Notorious member
If the bullet fits the throat, not much else matters.

....up to a point. The problem with Linotype is it won't hold good groups when pushed really fast in standard-twist rifles. Pressure doesn't seem to be the issue as much as some deficiency when taking high-angle lands at high speed. If you cut linotype alloy 3:1 with pure lead and heat treat it back to 20-22 bhn, it will do amazing things.
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
Just to clarify in my mind, that's 3 parts Lino to 1 pure?
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
3 pounds of pure for each pound of lino.

Had to edit this, I think this is what Ian referred to. Ian, correct me if this is wrong.
 
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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
....up to a point. The problem with Linotype is it won't hold good groups when pushed really fast in standard-twist rifles. Pressure doesn't seem to be the issue as much as some deficiency when taking high-angle lands at high speed. If you cut linotype alloy 3:1 with pure lead and heat treat it back to 20-22 bhn, it will do amazing things.

Absolutely True! Linotype is not malleable, it will not deform under pressure very well at all. If there is "windage", even a few thousandths of an inch, between the tailing edge of the land and the bullet it will gas cut. Accuracy goes down the tube (yes that is a pun). Malleable alloys that can move and seal that gap can be shot much faster, and especially in standard twist barrels.

I keep forgetting that accuracy isn't the primary objective of everyone! Linotype is a poor hunting, varminting and too expensive for plinking alloy. But you can make very consistent (and pretty) bullets with few rejects.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I think you nailed it, Ric, gotta "match the hatch" as Theodore Gordon would say. I love casting with Linotype and a good, certified Lyman #2, but those pretty bullets don't shoot worth a darn if the alloy doesn't match the situation at hand. If you build your load around the alloy, well, the CBA records speak for themselves.

We all get a little myopic about these things, I tend to see how close to jacketed performance I can get with all of my rifles, it's just something that interests me and drives me because it is so challenging and in most instances the limiting factors not very well agreed upon nor understood. However, I don't compete in sanctioned matches where precision and repeatability are the name of the game...and velocity or terminal performance are really quite moot points. My goals are shoot a lot for cheap and make a superior hunting bullet, and while striving for good groups is always part of the process for me, my standards are not anywhere near competition level and naturally my choice of alloy will be different.

Three parts pure lead and one part true Linotype will give an alloy consisting of 3% antimony and 1% tin with not much else in it. Pretty close to clip-on wheel weight metal, actually. There is just enough tin to make it cast really well and also to form 2% Sb/Sn matrix, leaving 2% "free" antimony. This three-component alloy will heat treat well, cast well, and serve very well from anything from the mildest load up to at least 40K psi if heat treated. It is also very good for hunting bullets pushed to over 2K fps in heat-treated form, and does pretty well in the expansion department with cup point bullet designs. Add another one to two percent tin to change the properties of the alloy from a shearing, linear-plane material to a more tough, malleable, cohesive material.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
This triggered a memory of something my father said one time. He cast bullets for the 219 zipper from pure lino. At about 3300+ fps, when they struck something, even as small and forgiving as a blade of grass, they would disintegrate to almost a powder.
 

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
If you cut linotype alloy 3:1 with pure lead and heat treat it back to 20-22 bhn, it will do amazing things.

Tried this combination this past Spring. Used 5# ingot bars from RotoMetals. Air cooled BHN was in the range of 8-9, while heat treated was only 16 BHN. Rick measured the BHN on his tester, about a week later. Have not shot these bullets, as yet. Might try adding 1% tin to raise the BHN, slightly......or try 3 parts lead to 2 parts lino.

My alloy calculations:

3/1 = 96 Pb - 3 Sb - 1 Sn

3/2 = 93.6 Pb - 4.8 Sb - 1.6 Sn
 
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Winelover

North Central Arkansas
Heat treating specifics. Bullets standing upright in Altoid mint cans, for one hour in convection oven. Set at 425 degrees. Immediate ice water quench, upon removal.