Chrono ES,SD question

[Intheshop]

The last 22-250 loads I ran had single digit ES,SD numbers.It's a 2500+fps tackdriver.

Our chrono takes a bit of time to set up,subsequently....don't use it near enough.I understand that the proof is in the pudding so to speak,and most folks load for accuracy results,on paper...not being overly concerned with #'s.

My question is,have any of you,mainly rifle shooters but top accuracy handguns certainly apply.....ever tried to achieve low ES/SD #'s,"by design"?Meaning,that the chrono numbers were part of the load development process from the get go.Ladder tests come to mind.

If so.....are there any specifics during this process you feel contributed?

I'm lazy in certain aspects of load development and trying to improve,need to make our pact chrono easier to set up.

BW

 

[Rick]

LabRadar solved the set up issues, nothing downrange at all. Simply place it on the bench and shoot.

Yes, I have used the chrono extensively for many years to work up loads. Mostly the Oehler 35. One of the biggest advantages in chrono data is in accurate note keeping and the comparison of data across many calibers, firearms, loads and load changes. The more data collected the more useful all of the data becomes. What does any given change do to a trend and does that trend repeat consistently? The chrono is invaluable in this. Chrono data of a 5 shot test will give you nothing more than a vague idea of velocity and tell you nothing of a loads consistency potential. Numerous tests compared with other similar tests is needed to know how consistent a load is. Groups on target are the bottom line but it's mighty rare to get good groups with consistent poor chrono numbers. It's entirely possible to get some great groups with poor chrono numbers but those groups won't repeat very often.
.

 

[Intheshop]

LabRadar ain't gonna happen,saving my lunch money for another milling machine.

But I hear what you are saying,if it isn't convenient....most folks don't bother.The same thing with record keeping.I "finally" came up with an easy to use system.Each gun gets a folder.

 

[fiver]

my chrono work has been more of the 'verify the load' type stuff.

the only real work I done with it was to take a couple of 45 colt lever guns, and a single 44 mag lever gun all with 24" barrels and pick an approximate pressure point with a single bullet.
then i worked my up through almost all of the powder groups from bulls-eye/red-dot to H-110 and even beyond that speed.
all I was doing was watching velocity climb, shooting for groups, and trying some different lube combinations.

 

[Brad]

When I'm shooting groups from a bench I almost always use a chronograph. The Labradar has made it easier.
I look st group size and characteristics and see if the chronograph date can give me a handle on what happened.
I don't look too hard at ES or SD data. I don't think those numbers matter as much at 100-200 as they do when we get into true long range shooting, like beyond 600 yards.
A good example of what a chrony is good for is determining if a filler is beneficial in a load. Compare no filler and filler with muzzle up, muzzle down, and random feeding from magazine. The variations may not matter at 50 yards but vertical will show some at 200 if variation is high.

 

[fiver]

the vertical will show up and a chrono will just confirm the velocity variations.

I wish I could find the write up Littlegirl done waay back when.[I think she was about 15]
she done a real good in depth one using three different barrel length 7.65 argie rifles and various bullets, primers, and powders, some with fillers and some without.
she done a lot of work with H-322 that summer too.
but it showed real time shot for shot velocity variations and their stringing effects on target.
she ended up the thread by using one of my home made hybrid cast/tubing bullets, H-322, and dryer lint as a filler to get her a real nice Doe after whiffing on a decent little buck earlier in the day.
I know all the pictures got lost in the photo bucket fiasco, but the thread has to be floating around CB somewhere. [think it's titled something like okay uncle ken or here you go uncle ken]

they must have had a bet or something because he sent her a Black powder revolver later that fall.

 

[Ian]

I remember the thread when she posted it, good stuff. IIRC some egos came a long and started giving her the what for about her results and some mods had to clean that up a bit, kinda funny some grown men get beat by a girl and then get ugly about it. For that $100K server I would think that a person could search a member's posts back farther than the last hundred, too, but that ended about six years ago. If you didn't have an exact keyword there was no finding old stuff. Made it real hard to find Bass' or Charles' old posts from 15 years ago, too.

 

[RBHarter]

I have a couple of Chronys . They are fixed on suitable camera tripods . The most difficult part about setting up is getting the V lined up with the bench and target . Of course I have the luxury of only having to wait for sheep , antelope and jackrabbits to clear the range .......

 

[Ian]

ITS, look at the "sportsman" (cheaper, bare-bones model) of Magneto Speed. Attaches to barrel so has limited use on auto handguns and revolvers with barrels less than about 6", depending on under-lug configuration, but it's less than $200, very accurate, stupid easy to use and set up, gives actual muzzle velocity, and works in the dark. No tripod, no BS. Can even use it off-hand, just tuck the little brain unit in your shirt pocket.

ETA pay particular attention to Rick's post about good loads almost never having wonky chrono numbers, but good chrono numbers don't always mean much either except the powder and primer are being consistent. You really want to see good burns, good bullet starts, and all that tuned to a harmonic node that gives the largest fudge factor for best groups.

 

[freebullet]

I still use the old style. Ced m2 or something like that. Aside from the shooting it risk it works fine. I don't shoot for groups through it. Means more testing, but shooting more isn't a problem. I'd agree with what most others posted about data interpretation.

 

[fiver]

I have the CED millennial.
I have been thinking about picking up another one as a second chrony.
I spent most of a Saturday figuring out how to do muzzle speed corrections and come to the conclusion that 2 chrono's are necessary pretty quickly.
if I remember right it is the speer#8 that explains how they figured MV [corrected] using 2 chrono's then rounded the numbers to figure BC's.

 

[Intheshop]

Been on the rd...

Anyway or someway will get the pact to setup easier.Uhh,pretty durn lazy when it's "parked"....all setup,40' from where I shoot.The tripod is the problem,which I'll address.

I don't spare too much effort on the loading,few more things to do but they're more twds "pure" target shooting.

But annealing,holding neck diam and carbon buildup inside same to the inth degree.Zero run out......plus some more is S.O.P.

The bullets,maybe could see a little better QC.The nose bump,as cast,tiiiny amt of lube,are getting it done.Will admit to needed digital.....there I said it,scale.Love the m5(7 or whatever it is) Lyman but wieghing bullets isn't that user friendly.Uhh,just passed on a 1200$ mill...money was good but can do better on quality.

 

[quicksylver]

I load for accuracy then when I get a good load and I'm curious enough I'll check the load with the crony.....

I use it primarily to compare powders....

It hasn't helped with developing a load...(yet)

 

[Intheshop]

I bought the pact mainly to test bows.We had an indoor bow range at the time and we were,just short of dumping large investment into production.Learned what worked and what doesn't.So in that way it was very much a development tool.

Rifles were really only about JB's and varmint rigs.All pretty std loads.222,22-250,6mm,243.Handguns were where the CB's were being used,exclusively.But the chrono was just about staying out of trouble when approaching upper end of loads.Think,getting hot 357 and 44 loads to about 90%...sometimes a touch more for hunting.Target 45 and 38 loadings were just solid published accuracy loads.Check them to get a baseline,then keep punching paper.

I knew how some folks were using them for rifle accuracy work but,being more field oriented.....just wasn't "that" concerned?I was curious,could even say lazy? with the OP question.Are there any specific areas like,neck tension...seating depth etc. that chronos really shine in rifle load development.

I haven't shot a JB in either a rifle or handgun in a long time with maybe 1 or two exceptions.

 

[JSH]

I hate shooting for group AND trying to shoot over my chronie, without shooting it! I have shot a couple of rods in two so far.

I used it a lot and I mean a LOT years back when there was a fair amount of surplus powder to be had on the cheap. Pretty much burned all that up except 20-30 pounds.

Anymore, and this may be bassackwards or totally wrong. I shoot for groups, make notes of the good bad and ugly. Once a promising load is found then I tend to try and wring it out, depending on use.
I shot some good grouping loads over the chrono, and according to a majority of input they should not have shot as well as they do, 22-250, 243 and an 06 load.
The jobbets that hang on the barrel, I don't see how it can't effect accuracy?
I won't rule out a lab radar in my future. I read the thread as you guys posted a while back. I won't lie, I read it with a raised eyebrow. Just sounds to good and easy to be true. I kept waiting for the negative input and never saw any, ha.
Jeff