Dented cases?
- Thread starter JWFilips
- Start date
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freebullet
Guest
I doubt we'll know exactly what did jw's, but I've helped resolve those issues several times, no eggspurt or gunsmiff though.
It's pretty common for improperly tunned autoloading handguns brass to hit the ejection port & various other places. Usually extractor or ejector adjustments can make stop it.
In rifles it can be those things & more. Can hit scope/mount ect. Normally comes back to the extractor /ejector. You can make any gun(almost) eject in a neat little pile if you watch someone else fire it & adjust accordingly.
It's pretty common for improperly tunned autoloading handguns brass to hit the ejection port & various other places. Usually extractor or ejector adjustments can make stop it.
In rifles it can be those things & more. Can hit scope/mount ect. Normally comes back to the extractor /ejector. You can make any gun(almost) eject in a neat little pile if you watch someone else fire it & adjust accordingly.
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
All I can say is what ever cause the Dents had something to do with the rim damage. Wish I thought of it earlier to take a photo of the rims ( I didn't) now I I'm nor sure it is well seen since I reworked the Rims.
My guess it was some sort of auto mil rifle! No bolt gun would make marks like that
My guess it was some sort of auto mil rifle! No bolt gun would make marks like that
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
If it is of any interest I did happen to find one of those -06 cases that I did not clean up
See photo below
You can see the triangular divot next to the "C" on the left photo and a side view of that area in the right photo This was enough to throw that part of the rim out of round. You can also see in the right photo below the "0" of the 06 another mash of the metal which formed upward above the rim directly opposite the triangle dent. To clean the rims up I had to file the last mentioned are flush with the rim and round it I had to round the Triangle area and also file a relief inside the rim ejection groove.
Like I said far too much work.
But it sounded like some guys were interested in figuring out what caused the damge in the original cases
See photo below
You can see the triangular divot next to the "C" on the left photo and a side view of that area in the right photo This was enough to throw that part of the rim out of round. You can also see in the right photo below the "0" of the 06 another mash of the metal which formed upward above the rim directly opposite the triangle dent. To clean the rims up I had to file the last mentioned are flush with the rim and round it I had to round the Triangle area and also file a relief inside the rim ejection groove.
Like I said far too much work.
But it sounded like some guys were interested in figuring out what caused the damge in the original cases
Ian
Notorious member
I still think a BAR could have done it. Triangle mark is from the ejector. The BAR is somewhat unique in that it has a fixed ejector in the receiver rather than a spring-loaded one in the bolt face, which also makes a particularly violent ejection. Observe this video at about 23 seconds:
I sporting version of the rifle has a bolt handle riding in a slot in the receiver, if the cases are hitting that bolt handle they could get a spoon-shaped dent in the shoulder rather than a flattened neck as with the M1918.
I sporting version of the rifle has a bolt handle riding in a slot in the receiver, if the cases are hitting that bolt handle they could get a spoon-shaped dent in the shoulder rather than a flattened neck as with the M1918.
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Eutectic
Active Member
Could be Ian......... But only you could find a 'southpaw' shooting a BAR! Now I'm not complainin'.............. I'm a 'lefty' too from the shoulder! Handguns, after decades, I'm ambidextrous. Browning liked a fixed ejector if he could get away with it..... even my shotgun love... the Model 97...
Pete
Pete
fiver
Well-Known Member
if you notice I caught the shot before the pirmer was even dented and again as the empty case flew through the air then superposed them over one another using a single negative.
that is otherwise known as 'fast hands photography'.
you just have to use a slow shutter speed and a fast film speed and sometimes a fish-eye lense with zoom and pan at the same to make it happen.
the photo just appears to be blurry because the subject is 2 different diameters.
that is otherwise known as 'fast hands photography'.
you just have to use a slow shutter speed and a fast film speed and sometimes a fish-eye lense with zoom and pan at the same to make it happen.
the photo just appears to be blurry because the subject is 2 different diameters.
Chris
Well-Known Member
Another candidate for damaging brass is a Heckler and Koch semi-auto. Had a guy hunt with me a number of years who owned one... can't recall the model number... and it was a fine and expensive rifle. Nice walnut stock that had a European style to it. I recall that it was fairly long and heavy for our brushy woods, and that it really threw the brass. The brass was really mangled, too.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Yep, had an SL7 in .308. Fluted chamber to delay action opening. Shoot great, cases unusable after one firing if you could find them.
quicksylver
Well-Known Member
besides just think of all the money you are saving by having 50-80-cases already..
I had the same thing happen using once fired R-P '06 brass that had no dents in then that I was trying to form to 7x57 with a RCBS froming die. I posted a photo of it on a different site and they look exactly like the op's. I was told that I was using too much lube. All of them didn't crease like that, maybe 65% of them.
Eutectic
Active Member
A forming die may be have dimensions to shape as it is marked but it can't be used like a full length sizing die. Your picture started as a lube dent and then folded inward from more load than the shoulder could handle. At best, using only one die has to done slowly in steps with minimum lube!
Even if you get a visually OK case it may not be..... Heavy forming load as in this one step process can actually 'move' brass downward longitudinally with thicker maybe nonuniform wall thickness. How do I know this??? I have weighed finished cases......
The best way to move the shoulder back for match quality brass is with multiple dies. I have both .358 Winchester and .308 Winchester full length dies I have shortened a little at the bottom. You can set the shortened .358 to push the shoulder back to almost the 7x57 shoulder..... then the shortened .308; finally your 7x57 form die. This will give you factory brass quality or better. 7x57 is long enough you may be able to use the dies without shortening.
Sounds labor intensive but isn't any worse than multiple steps on a single die that still gives shaky results. You will see custom forming dies take the shoulder back in steps as I have explained.
Pete
Even if you get a visually OK case it may not be..... Heavy forming load as in this one step process can actually 'move' brass downward longitudinally with thicker maybe nonuniform wall thickness. How do I know this??? I have weighed finished cases......
The best way to move the shoulder back for match quality brass is with multiple dies. I have both .358 Winchester and .308 Winchester full length dies I have shortened a little at the bottom. You can set the shortened .358 to push the shoulder back to almost the 7x57 shoulder..... then the shortened .308; finally your 7x57 form die. This will give you factory brass quality or better. 7x57 is long enough you may be able to use the dies without shortening.
Sounds labor intensive but isn't any worse than multiple steps on a single die that still gives shaky results. You will see custom forming dies take the shoulder back in steps as I have explained.
Pete
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fiver
Well-Known Member
if you got too much stuff going into the same area it takes the path of least resistance.
I pinched some necks in like that just sizing them down from 8mm to 30 cal and pushing a sloping shoulder on at the same time.
I think you have the brass trying to go back and in and forward all at once.
the pinch is generally where the brass is trying to move forward and change angles at the same time.
since it has nothing forcing it out to change angles it just keeps going forward into nothingness.
I pinched some necks in like that just sizing them down from 8mm to 30 cal and pushing a sloping shoulder on at the same time.
I think you have the brass trying to go back and in and forward all at once.
the pinch is generally where the brass is trying to move forward and change angles at the same time.
since it has nothing forcing it out to change angles it just keeps going forward into nothingness.