Different moulds, same design?

[Brad]

I have 3 different moulds for a 44 cal swc of a "Keith style".
They are similar but have some stark differences too.
Left to right are a Lee group buy, an NOE HG 503, and a Lyman 429421. The Lyman does have bands I opened a bit to give a .432 bullet.
The Lyman and NOE each weigh 269gr with the Lee going 259gr.
I cast these from a single pot today. I had forgotten how much I dislike the Lee mould. That big, square grease groove makes them prone to hanging up in the mould. The Lyman double cav and NOE 4 cav each drop bullets easily.

 

[fiver]

I like that 503.

I would look at the dish on the lee's nose as part of your problem, right before I mailed it to some new guy.

 

[Brad]

The 503 is what I have been feeding the 44 special. It drops bullets well, is a 4 cav so production rate is high. I can't see a reason to use the other two moulds at all.

 

[KHornet]

When you go with what works, it pays not to fix it!

Paul

 

[gman]

The 503 is probably the closest copy to the real thing. The Elmer Keith signature molds NOE produced are supposed to be the real deal. They also shoot well in my guns.

 

[358156 hp]

To add to the mix here, is my (formerly) 1930s 429422. Keith designs are all over the place on dimensions, and practically none of them meet Elmers original specifications. I also have an MP H&G 503 that I should really take pics of, and an RCBS 44-250KT, if I can find it. I also see that Accurate has a version out that is supposed to be as true to the original design as possible with the information we have today, 43-250J.

It could be worse though, I think the 358429 really got the short end of the deal as far as uniformity, and adherence to original specifications go, the very first production moulds didn't match Elmers drawings, and it seemed to go downhill from there. I at least understand the necessity of the reduced front drive band, but there were many other changes over the years. And the 41 magnum "Keith" wasn't even designed with any of his input. It was made to "formula" by Lyman.

 

[fiver]

I have the Ly. 41 version and the front drive band is super thin, it's actually a difficult mold to cast with because of that band.
when you get it up to operating temp the band breaks off coming from the mold.
slightly cold and it don't fill out.
so you have to run it hot and super slow at the same time.

 

[358156 hp]

The 458 mould I'm borrowing has a similar issue. It's a five cavity, two are 525 gr, and three are 325 gr. The 325 gr cavities prefer higher temps, but the 525 gr cavities overheat really quickly (4-5 casts), rounding & frosting the edges of the driving bands. I think I need to tweak my alloy slightly, and slow way down to see if I can figure out a way to make all this work together. I'm cleaning up some old mystery alloys right now, and I'm now pretty sure I have my Sn & Sb percentages out of whack again. IIRC, I probably should cut the alloy 50/50 with pure lead, then retest. I believe this is what Ian was trying to get me to do a few years ago, and I did it backwards then. This could be more of that same alloy, which I think was way over on tin.

 

[Ian]

Way over on tin does some weird things casting...and shooting too. Mystery leading showing up all of a sudden is just one anomaly.

I too like that 503, wish it had just a titch more lube groove, but it should be enough with a grease-fortified lube to handle anything a plain-based .44 bullet can take.

 

[Bret4207]

Moulds vary over time and as new cherries are cut. A cherry that has been sharpened a couple times is going to differ from when it was new. Add in different makers with different ideas and it's better to call them "similar designs" than "the same design from different makers".

 

[Full.lead.taco]

My Super Redhawk really loves that 503--and that large meplat sure hits stuff hard.

 

[JSH]

Brad, looks like my mess of 44' molds. I have three or four that are clones of "The Original" design

One was supposedly researched a great deal........

Bad thing is I picked up some single cavities because they were cheap for the whole lot. There is one particular one a couple of FA's really like. Specific alloy and temp for that one. Tempted to get a 10lb pot just for it.
Jeff