Educate the uninformed

[Goatwhiskers]

Sitting around with too much time on my hands, got to wondering about smokeless vs BP lubes. I know there is considerable difference between lubes normally used for each. What would happen if you used, as an example, JPW 50/50 dip lubed like RD with an overcoat of BLL pushed by BP? More curiosity than anything else, tho I have thought about it in my .445SM Handi. GW

 

[Brad]

BP needs a wetter lube to keep the fouling soft. Alox type lubes generally don't do well with BP as it forms a hard fouling that subsequent bullets must run over. That is pretty hard on the bullets and accuracy.

Lubes can be as simple or co plea as you want. A lube like BR will handle 90% of the shooting needs of most people. With a few modifications it can be even better in heat.

What are your specific needs or requirements?

 

[Ian]

It all boils down to Consistency Of Residuals Encountered, as Eutectic is fond of calling the principle feature a lube can screw up in a gun barrel: The shot-to-shot variations in bore fouling that degrade accuracy.

I've read all over the internet and in a few books that anything petroleum-related will instantly make asphalt in your barrel, make your hair fall out, and cause kittens to die, etc., but I've only found the bore goo issue to be true on a very limited basis. Keep in mind it's moderately humid or higher where I live and done most of my bp shooting, and I haven't done a tremendous amount of it like some folks. One thing I can tell you is everyone who says you gotta keep the fouling soft with moisture is 100% spot-on, and that's part of why we need so much VOLUME of lube with BP compared to smokeless. The lube is actually having to serve three purposes with BP: Lubrication, stop-leak, and cleaning/softening agent. I haven't found anything yet to effectively deal with the gawdawful crud that Pyrodex leaves behind.

Natural oils and waxes contain lot of fatty acids which tend to make an emulsion in your barrel when combined with the moisture and salt by-products of the BP. Petroleum oils aren't so good at this so you're better off sticking with natural stuff that will work for you rather than against you. As a bonus, the animal and plant waxes and oils are great for the hands, raw-wood short starters, leather, and smells good. Mostly. Some formulas go rancid easily when stored and sheep fat is not my favorite thing to be around.

All that written, I have the same basic last question for you as Brad.

 

[RBHarter]

Olive bee .
Wads , lube grooves , over ball .

Did I post my bit on ownself BP ?
Cheap , easy and real BP .

 

[300BLK]

Its not too difficult to make a BP cartridge lube, but what has been relayed is true. The lube needs to be compatible with the BP fouling left behind. Beeswax is most often used as the basis, and then some fats or oils are added to soften the beeswax, or is it the beeswax is used to solidify the fats and oils? Lube to be used in fixed ammunition needs to be firm, that used on patches for front stuffers can run from liquid to salve like, and that for sealing revolver cylinders more like grease.

For cartridge ammo you need "enough" lube capacity. That will be different with a 20" barrel than it will be with a 34". The Lee 458-340-F shot well from my 30" barreled 45-70, but it didn't carry enough lube to shoot 15+ shot strings in a match (using a blow tube). If wiping between shots, that goes out the window. Some powders make more fouling, but its soft and the powder doesn't make a lot of heat, so easier to deal with using a blow tube. Swiss makes a lot of barrel heat, so almost necessitates running a damp patch between shots, but again, might not be noticed by someone not shooting a string of shots "on the clock".

A compressed load of BP in a 445SM isn't going to make a lot of barrel heat. I would suggest pan lubing with a mixture of beeswax, olive or canola oil and about 10% anhydrous lanolin. Try 45-45-10, and if it seems too sticky, or doesn't harden enough, add more beeswax.

 

[Goatwhiskers]

No specific needs, mostly idle speculation. Learned a lot right here, for example I think my only suitable mold would be the Lyman .44, as it seems the tumble lube types wouldn't carry near enough grease. Maybe PP, haven't read up on that at all, tho it's working great in the SM and my Max (smokeless of course). GW

 

[Ian]

Grease cookies under the bullet are required for BPCRPP. Make a more firm (more beeswax percentage) formula that's tough and can have plugs punched out of it like gasket material.

 

[300BLK]

PP can work if you wipe between shots or use a grease cookie under the bullet. BP PP bullets were (usually) tapered quite a bit so the bullet could set well into the throat and not have much bullet intruding into the capacity of the case.

445SM loaded with BP would be similar to the Ballard and Wesson 44XL cartridges, or 44 Evans Long. It appears that they used bullets in the 250-280gr range.

edit: I have disassembled a couple of mid 1880s 43 Mauser military cartridges and found that they used a waxy grease cookie sandwiched between a couple of card wads similar to playing card material

 

[Goatwhiskers]

More interesting by the minute. Was thinking of the Handi for ease of cleaning. My Max Martini is not drilled on the rear of the frame so would be a pain to clean. BP seems as tho it would be fun, my only experience being an old muzzle loader a lot of years ago. GW