Flat pointing a bullet mould

[JWFilips]

Lots of great ideas ( starting to feel overwhelmed)
The key here for my mould is to reduce the length ( weight) of the bullet while adding a flat point to an otherwise conical pointed nose bullet....(The mould is a cheap Lee 2 cavity aluminum)...... And do the job on my drill press. My figuring was to Square it up in the press vise.... bush it and drill a hole into the nose out the bottom. Hone a flat pin for a tight slide fit and come up with a way for it to stay fixed in one half of the mould ( so it didn't have to be withdrawn like a removable hollow point pin) Well that was my original idea

 

[fiver]

you'd just have to make a pin [with a tab] and then screw the tab to the mold block.
I'm basing my answers on my skill level and tools on hand here.

 

[JWFilips]

Fiver ,
Got you; Just what i was thinking. Just wanted to run by the "oneside fixed pin" concept as a sound working idea.
While I do not have a lathe or mill in my workshop I have done harder projects in 4 decades of putzing around in there Would like to say I'm running above average in success rate.
I usually will come up with an idea of how I want to do it and then if I get a ton of great ideas, like you guys threw out here, I try to find the ones that parallel my thinking and merge those ideas with my original thoughts...... Although Ian does have me intrigued with the "cut off saw through the nose of the bullet and a metal plate" ( sounds like the least intrusive.)
Jim

 

[Missionary]

Greetings
Years ago bought a 45-60 1876 Winchester. Cut down 20 45-70 brass and started looking in the caliber 458 box for a 260 grain mold without a long nose. 1876 rifles are very OAL sensitive. None. Closest was a 300 grain Lyman some one had hollow pointed. Tried a ball bearing and a aluminum foil wad in the mold but production was very slow.
Kept going back to the HP mold when it dawned on me a 1/8" flat headed bolt would fit that HP shaft. Found an appropriate bolt, guessed at the approximate place the bolt head needed to extend inside the mold, reshaped the head to the mold inside contour, added some washers and nuts to lock in the right distance and went to casting.
It works well enough to cast a usable bullet. Had to lap the mold open to cast a 40-1 bullet to .462. This threw off my bolt head a little shorter but still ended up with a usable length and about 270 grains. The adapted bolt rig has to be "settled each time the mold is closed but no worse that a HP pin is. And for a rifle I do not shoot 100's of rounds with it is adequate to me.
Mike in Peru

 

[smokeywolf]

Mike, I know 45-60 brass is hard to come by. I'd be happy to add another 20 cases to your inventory. They're cut down from Starline 45-70 and sized in a 45-60 die. They function perfectly in my model '76. I have 100 or more cases and can make up 20 more in an hour or so if the need arises. So, I'm in a good position to share.
PM me with an address if you're interested and I'll send them.

 

[Missionary]

Good morning Smokeywolf
Thank you very much for the kind offer. Those first 20 have been added to over the years. But again thank you !
Have you found a good smokeless load ? I tried a few but none could ever compare to 3F. Tried many but the 3F groups have always been the best by a good margin. Not that I really mind. I like the load.
Mike in Peru

 

[smokeywolf]

Not sure you can beat black for accuracy. I've used 5744 and 4198 to come as close as possible to black powder ballistics.

At lower pressures the 5744 leaves a lot of unburned kernels behind so I've settled on IMR 4198. Don't have my journal handy, but as I recollect, I was loading an original Ideal/Lyman 457191 292 grn. COWW/pure mix over 24.? grains of IMR 4198. Not sure about the mix on the bullet alloy as I'm still drawing from bullets I cast back in 1972 or '73. Those bullets were cast from a run of ingots that were the product of smelting my father had done in the '50s.

Because of the weight of the '76, it only kicks a smidge harder than the '73 44-40. The '76 is probably the least pretty of my Winchesters, but is still a favorite over most.

Have you seen the section on reloading for '76 replicas that appears in the 49th edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook? Lyman's load for the replicas using the same powder, runs about 10% hotter than mine. But then, I'm shooting them out of a 130 year old barrel.

 

[Missionary]

No I have not yet bought a 49th Edition. I am not surprised the replica loads are a might hotter. Have a replica 76 in 50-95. Some of the parts are much harder than the same part in the original 45-60. Also have a 45-60 replica of the Mounty version I am looking forward to shooting next time up. CDNN Sports had them for under $600. Has the 22 inch barrel so should be a bit easier to get through the brush.
But generally hunting with the 76's I take my cross sticks and find a bank over looking a bottom area and see what wanders by or I can call. The 50-95 is a bit overkill for ground hogs and raccoons but it is about all I can hunt with it in ILLinois. But I can take a caliber 54, dump 120 grains of 2F down the bore and that is completely safe and lawful ??? The 45-60 is even twice as silly. But they still are as fun as ever. Ground hogs really get rolled with a 270 grain 40-1 cast chugging along at 1200 fps. The 50-95 moves the same weight cast at 1465 crono'd. That gets destructive.
Mike in Peru

 

[James W. Miner]

I warped a few mold cherries while hardening them until I found a better way. I put the cherry in my drill press chuck and spin it while I bring it red hot with a torch. I stop the drill and open the chuck to drop the cherry straight into my oil can. I temper in the kitchen oven.
But with care and a good grinder, you can turn a drill bit flat with cutting edges. The best grinder is sold by Woodcraft. 1750 rpm's so you don't get too hot but dip in water as you grind. Do not try to cut with a soft drill or one too hard.

 

[Missionary]

Good morning
In grinding a bit flat do you use the flat side of a smooth grinding wheel ?

 

[James W. Miner]

Where ever it takes you. But you need cutting edges too. The grinder you use for mower blades will not work.

 

[Todd M]

I annealed my drill bit with a propane torch by heating it until red hot, then let cool. Then I used a hand file to take the point off and turn it into a blunt nosed cutter. Only took a few minutes of careful work. Then I used the lube ratchet wrench from my lyman 45 and as careful as possible, turned it by hand, with just as much down pressure as my thumb could handle. Plenty of oil while cutting. I have not cast with it yet but I think it did an alright job! I'm not sure I picked the right mold/drill but combo for a nice end result of boolit nose shape but I am encouraged with the ease of the modification.

 

[smokeywolf]

I save all my dull taps that I don't or can't resharpen. These are reground to become boring bars or boring bar inserts. I've had better luck using old taps for form tools or boring bars than re-purposing drill bits.
Unless you are reshaping or deepening a fairly deep cavity, a reground tap provides much better rigidity.

 

[Barn]

Several years ago I converted this mould from a long pointy bullet to flat point on my drill press.

 

[Todd M]

Several years ago I converted this mould from a long pointy bullet to flat point on my drill press.

I like it! Did you tap the brass pin and put a screw in to hold it?

 

[JWFilips]

Now that's what I'm thinking! Same question: Is that an inset Screw holding the pin to the mould?

 

[Barn]

The pin was tapped and is held in place by a screw.

When I use the mould I dip a toothpick in Bullplate and run it around the mould to pin junction to help the bullets release easier. The toothpick is damp not wet.

 

[Rick]

Several years ago I had Erik make new pins for my Lyman # 356637 HP mold.



The center pin is the stock Lyman pin, on the left is a smaller HP point pin I had him make and on the right is the flat point pin. This was a bevel base bullet & Erik fixed that also.



Here are the bullets FPPB.

 

[JWFilips]

Rick those are a work of art!
If that 8 mm mould was worthy of Erik's expert craftsmanship It would be in his hands No doubt: That is a beautiful job on a great bullet mould. I'm thinking of sending my NOE 246-104 out to him to make it weigh less then 104 (Grains) Great design but sure didn't have to be that heavy. I don't think Al will be changing it any time soon so I'm going to let Erik get a crack at it first. Too much lead and too much powder to make that cast fly true...now I'm thinking; cut it back to 90 grains and it would be the best cast 243 bullet out there.... Right now it just has to be the 87 grain SAECO bore rider which is very similar in design ( however the moulds are near unobtainable!)