Good use for Lee Factory Crimp Die

[Stonecrusher]

I have been working with a new to me S&W Victory in 38 S&W. This is her, in pretty good shape:


Started having a problem with my 1970's era RCBS steel dies. The sizer wanted to make the od of the case about .375" and the seater wouldn't even take a factory round let alone one with a .362" diameter bullet. I lapped out the seat/crimp die and it works fine. I lapped out the sizer to take the case to .362" to allow a little for the expander to open it up. Every time I tried to size it would size off center. Didn't matter what I did. I tried different lubes, turning the case and sizing incrementally, etc. I did not like the results at all.

Thanks to 358156 hp I took a look at my dies and had a set of Lee 9x19 dies. The factory crimp die was perfect for sizing the .38 S&W. Now my cartridges look like they are supposed to. You can see the results in the crappy pic below. Steel die on left, FCD on right.


I was loading some 200 gr Long RN from Matt's bullets, and they worked out well. 2.5-2.6 gr of HP-38 shoots to the sights at 20yds. For those that are interested chrono data below from 5" barrel:

200 gr Long RN(Not MkII) seated to crimp groove. Starline brass and Rem 1 1/2 primer.
2.4gr HP-38 595fps
2.5gr HP-38 618fps
2.6gr HP-38 645fps
2.7gr HP-38 660fps
2.8gr HP-38 682fps

Never had a sizer go off center like that. I guess I will make an adapter to go from the 5/8"-18 thread in the FCD to the 7/16"-20 thread of the RCBS decapping stem.

 

[RBHarter]

The 45 ACP FCD makes a fine sizer for my fat chambered 45 Colts Rossi too .

 

[fiver]

seein as how the fcd dies are just over sized carbide size rings [also read as expensive screw up]
I can see how this would work.

 

[JWFilips]

My wife shoots a 38 S&W Terrier I switched to 9mm Mak sizing and seating dies early on!
They are the berries! Nice big fat cast at .362" Very accurate in her little 2" barrel!

 

[JSH]

After playing with 38sw and wearing out the handful of cases I had, I had to find something that would work. A fair bit of a chore, but I ended up cutting down 38 super brass.
These were just some very light loads using mostly 158 grain wadcutter. 38sw brass is a bit easier to come by now than it was in the 80's.
I ended up with some 38sw brass proper head stamp. The 38 super brass I ended up using for some shot loads with some capsules.
I was pretty cautious and the first few the plastic got stuck in the forcing come and the cylinder, the shot all but rolled out the end of the barrel,lol.

 

[Stonecrusher]

Yeah, JW, I thought about the Mak dies. But then I would have had to spend money! It just so happened that the FCD was the perfect size. Thought I would give an option for the frugal among us.

Went ahead and made the adapter.

Lee FCD and RCBS sizer:


Adapter threaded 5/8"18 one end and tapped 7/16"-20 for RCBS decapping stem:


Assembly:


And only cost about 20 minutes of my time! I am ready for when I empty the cases out next time.

 

[Ian]

Improvise, adapt, and overcome! Good job on that, I'll file that in my catalog of ideas for when I get to reloading for an old no-name .38 S&W revolver I have.

BTW, I have a US Navy Victory model in .38 Special and really like it. It's Parkerized like yours, carried a lot and shot almost none. Probably a dock security officer's piece, no way to know.

 

[Stonecrusher]

They are great old revolvers. Old S&W quality. Mine never left the US as it is only marked US Property with no British, Australian, etc acceptance marks. It has very little wear. Now I have to get a mold for it. I hate spending money to buy bullets, but it is a way to try different things. I wanted to be sure it would shoot to the sights with the 200 grainers before I bought something. With factory ammo and reloads using 158 gr bullets it shoots about 5" low at 20 yds.

 

[Ian]

My Special shoots 4" high at 15 yards with 158s. I got aggravated by it and several other .38 Smiths in my fleet for all shooting high and bought a Lee 125-grain RF mould, which cured the problem with all of them using a 90% throttle load of mid-fast pistol powder. The Victory now shoots a perfect bullseye with a 6-o'clock hold at 15 on a 1" dot with the 125s. Since I happen to have it with me I just measured the front blade height above bore center line and it's .612" or so. The top strap is .205" thick and the sight groove is .050" deep.

If your .38 S&W shoots low with the 158s it's REALLY going to shoot low with the 200s. We're only talking 100 fps lower velocity between yours and mine.

 

[Stonecrusher]

With 2.5-2.6 grns HP-38 and the 200 grn bullets, it now shoots to point of aim at 20 yds. Actually, the elevation is right but it still shoots about 1 1/2" left. The velocity is right on par with spec for the 200 grn service load. Lighter-faster shoot lower than heaver-slower. Just what you experienced with the 158 and 125 grn bullets.
2.6grn load below: I need more time with these thin grips. Flyer is definitely me!

 

[Ian]

I thought you said it shot 5" low with the 158s?

 

[Stonecrusher]

That is correct. The 150gr factory and 158gr reloads shot 4-5" low. The 200gr shoot on elevation wise.
With your guns the 158gr shot high and by going to a lighter bullet, 125gr, your gun shoots to the sights. Same thing, I just started low and came up, you started high and came down.

By the time the Victories were made the Brits were using a 178 gr bullet instead of the 200. I have heard of them shooting to the sights with everything from 150gr factory to 200 gr ammo.

First target I fired using ammo I received with the gun, Winchester factory 38 S&W 150gr. Point of aim was center of black. The target in the earlier post, I was using the bottom point of the triangle as the aiming point.

 

[Ian]

Sorry, William, you didn't see the sign that Bill Engvall gave me hanging from my neck ... I've been playing with the .45s a lot lately and when I read 200 grain my brain thought lighter bullet, not heavier. A quick think confirms that 200 grains is indeed heavier than 158 and should raise POI considerably.

 

[Stonecrusher]

Not a problem! I have brain farts multiple times each day.

 

[Pistolero]

Ian,
The Navy issue ammo for the .38 Spl was 130 JRN, either ball or tracer. My father
carried one in WW2, unfortunately it was stolen in one of our many moves, so I
don't have it. We did shoot a bunch of barracudas with it when we were fishing
in Key West. Try to unhook a running chainsaw......NOPE, gonna shut it off and
feed him to his buddies.

Bill

 

[Ian]

Well that's a little gold information nugget, thank you Bill! Everyone tells me the problem is ME not the revolver because I'm not shooting 158s at 50 yards. It's a close-range security piece, not a bullseye pistol, and have always maintained that as such it should shoot to the sights at self-defense ranges, and by golly it does just that with the cast 125s. It makes perfect sense that the issue load used a lighter bullet and the sights were regulated for close range.

 

[Pistolero]

Actually, my father said he only carried tracers, in WW2 era and afterwards when flying, and
considered the revolver primarily as a signaling device if down in a raft. Tracers are really
decent attention getters.

Bill

 

[Brad]

Unhook a running chainsaw. talk about a description that just works.

 

[Pistolero]

If you have ever had a 3 ft angry barracuda on a hook, you would think the description is accurate. Yikes,
keep your fingers away. The front are grippers, the rears work against each other
like razor sharp shears. Only need to see one to know that unhooking a live one
was NOT going to happen. And 3 ft of stainless steel wire leader was standard, too.

Ian -- the 130 JRN is still a std load. I assume the jacketed ammo was for Geneva Convention rules on non-expanding
ammo. I believe the Air Force issued that same ammo for their guys using .38 Spls. Most Navy guys used tracer
for signaling. Not much to shoot from your raft, maybe a shark, but getting attention was a BIG deal if you were
down in the Pacific. WHOLE lotta water.

https://www.bulkammo.com/bulk-38-spl-ammo-38special130mcremumc-250

Bill

 

[fiver]

they issued me a 38 revolver when i was in the AF as a security forces member before PJ school.
i looked at it and thammo and handed it backto the armorer.
i had to qualify with it but they couldn't make me carry it.
airc it was about 130-135grs and a RN copper wrapped bullet.
it was stoked to about the level of the loads i gave my 75 YO MIL for target practice.

when i got throught PJ school they gave me a Beretta and i wasn't any happier with that [except once and i would have preffered 2 more magazines for the AR for the same weight]