Got to shoot a piece of history today.

uncle jimbo

Well-Known Member
My son and I went shooting today and he brought a couple of friends to shoot with us. One of them had a Mosin–Nagant M91. It was made in 1942. I have never handled one or shot one before. Well today I got to shoot one. For being that old of a rifle, this shot really great. Extremely accurate and fun to shoot. After shooting some rounds, we started shooting at a rock that was 241 yards away according to the range finder. It took a couple of shots but we could hit that rock most all the time. Rock was about the size of a five gallon bucket. The front bead would cover the rock but we keep hitting the rock. We had fun.

On a side note we shot Tula ammo. I have about 24 once fired empties. The are steel cases with burden primers. I don't know if they have any value to reloaders, but if someone here wants them and willing to pay for the shipping, they can have them.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
those old rifles are fun to shoot.
my dad gave me a choice of a 91 or a short barreled small ring 7 mauser when I was a kid.
I took the mauser,,,, sent me down the wrong path I'm sure :)
I shot my first couple of deer with that rifle, then traded it and ended up with an Arisaka chambered for 30-06.
managed to scratch out a deer or two with it somehow, it never was all that accurate [but what did I know?]
eventually I ended up with a twin to the first rifle.

anyway that brass is one and done stuff.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I tried to buy one once but the seller got all flakey .
My first was a 98' from Chile . I've had a thing Mausers ever since .

As far as History goes .....
My buddy Jorge bought a 1873 TD . Research says it has a 75' action and 86' fittings , there's nothing to suggest that it was issued or to whom or what group it may have been issued to if it was but it was pretty cool to pull the trigger on 140 yo rifle . It shot surprisingly well with it's over cleaned muzzle . I suspect the paper patched Minnie had a little something to do with that .
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Milsurps were made to be man killers at ranges that are
hard today to imagine with issue sights. The 91 is just
one of them.

Paul
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Perhaps I should be ashamed to admit it, but I've never fired a Mosin Nagant or a Mauser. Shoot, I've never even shot a Marlin.

My repertoire has consisted of: Winchesters, Springfield, Remington, Colt, S & W, Ruger, Marble Axe Co. (game-getter), Ithica, Mossberg, old Wells Fargo (WF & Co (unsure of manufacturer)) 12 gauge side-by-side coach gun.
I've lead a sheltered life.
 

Ian

Notorious member
When I first got started in bullet casting (thanks to my best friend in high school and his father and grandfather), we played with my old Marlin 30-30, a Winchester 94, and a Mosin rifle. The Mosin had a sewer pipe bore, but we used Clover compound for grease and got it decent, great for busting rocks and varmints out to 100 yards or so. I think we used ten grains of Unique for all of them. Back then there wasn't much boxer primed brass for the Russian, but we had a few boxes of PMC that we took good care of and got a zillion reloads out of it. Fun stuff for a couple 15-year-olds, but I got my history fix and never bothered to buy a Mosin of my own, or a Winchester. I got bitten by the Swedish Mauser bug before I graduated and the rest is history.
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Mosin 91's are still pleantiful and mostly at a decent price. The price has doubled
in the past 2 years or so however. I paid 91.00 at a gun show about 5 years ago,
clean bore, no pits, 1942. I paid 89.00 for a Mosin M38 Carbine about the same time.
Both fun rifles for plinking, and are excellent cast shooters once you get the right
size bullet.

Paul
 

uncle jimbo

Well-Known Member
I would love to buy one, but my wife thinks I have too many firearms now. I did have fun shooting it. But the owner said I could borrow it any time, which I won't, but all I have to do is invite him back up when I go shooting again.
Now you gotta buy a Mosin Nagant Uncle Jimbo!
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
The typical round action M-N looks like a failed 8th grade shop project done with a Dremel tool
on the outside, but will shoot safely, and for a long time. I have never had one shoot particularly
accurately, but I wouldn't want to stand at a couple of hundred yards and let you pop away at me,
either.
Now, the Finns took the action, threw away the bbl, threw away the sights, threw away the stock
and built a really fine, extremely accurate rifle the M28s and M39s. I have a M39 which is a real
accurate rifle. With some Soviet match ammo I have shot multiple groups under or right at 1"
at 100 yds from the bench. I'm afraid that my eyes may not support that any more, haven't shot that
rifle in a few years with open sights. I am in to process of shimming a Finn replica scope mount
to get the limited adjustment replica Soviet scope to look where it is shooting.

I have a sniper M91/30 that is reasonably accurate, but not up to the M39 or my M1903Springfield
USMC replica vintage sniper. Good sound rifles, but no prize for fit or finish. If you saw the movie
"Enemy at the Gates" they handed every other guy a rifle, and the inbetween guys got some ammo,
when they asked about a rifle, they were told to follow the man with the rifle, and take it when he was
killed. Given the massive shortage of rifles, it is clear that some production engineer explained that
they could have one nice rifle or three very rough rifles in the same time, and let them choose. I am
sure that I would take a rough rifle over no rifle, any time it was offered, when going into battle.

The last 91/30 I bought cost $89 and I could pick from any in a crate. Got one with a new barrel.
I have several cases of surplus ammo still for 762x54R bought when it was cheap.

Bill
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Bill, i beleive it was Stalin who was quoted as saying that quantity is a quality all its own.
You may have nicer stuff but they will have way more.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
No doubt that they had a lot of equipment. I spent a lot of time in Russia, and
most, even smaller, cities have a T34 tank as a memorial to WW2 or the Great Patriotic
War, as they call it. Those T34s are really really rough, too. Clearly the turret is cast,
the sprues cut off with a cutting torch and the external finish work is DONE. Machine
the turret ring and gun mount pintles and install it. But, they had a lot of them and
they were pretty decent tanks, when the German Tigers would puke a transmission about
every 600 miles or less. The T-34s and M91/30s and tons of PPSH-41s, another truly crude
but effective design high velocity subgun turned back the Germans. Horrific death tolls,
more than most Americans know, the Russians fought a real tough piece of that war, and wiht
a lot of US equipement, Sherman tanks, P-39 Aircobra tank busters and B-25 medium bombers.
I have seen a B-25 and a P-39 in a Russian air museum. Odd to see US planes with Red Star markings.

Bill
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Have a 91 and 38 Mosin, vintage 1942. I paid less than 100.00 for each of them
Have never fired any surplus ammo in them, as I consider them to be strictly
cast shooters for me. Didn't have a great deal of trouble getting the bbls clean of
brass/copper, and they both have no pits. They both shoot cast bullets of about
.314/.315. Are they ugly, yep. Are they fun to shoot, yep. Are they accurate, within
military standards for the average grunt or peasant, yep.

They will stay under 4" at 100, which for military standards with
issue sights are lethal to at least 300 yds. I wish I had bought a Finn way back, but
that is hindsight, and now they are outside of the price limits I am willing to spend. I
have no trouble with the Russian philosophy of the day when it came to arming the
masses. A prime example of the KISS principle.

Paul
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
A bit of trivia.
What aircraft was built in the greatest numbers, EVER?
For extra credit - guess how many were made.

Bill
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
OK, Brad, good answer. I velieve you are correct, the good old 172 has been made in huge numbers.

I phrased the question poorly, I intended to say "military aircraft".

Bill
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
IL-2 with 36,183 made. Great Russian WW2 ground attack plane. The Germans learned to fear them.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I was gonna guess the T-38, but in context it would have to be one of the MIGs.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Cheating. :D

Yes. That I why it popped into my mind. These literally armored flying gunships were built and shot
down and crashed in huge numbers by the Russians to stop the German armor. Our P-39s had a 37mm
cannon in the nose, firing through the prop spinner center and would destroy tanks well from top and
rear aspects. The Il-2s had 20 mm or 23 mm cannons, and later they also went up to 37mm cannons in
pods hung under the wings. The entire front section was covered in steel armor plate from 1/4 to 1/2
inch thick protecting the engine, cooling system and pilot from small arms, and to some extent from
heavier calibers if the angle was right to deflect it.

I have seen many of them in museums in Russia, and I visited a town, Krasnoturinsk which is in the middle
of nowhere in Siberia, yet has a huge aluminum smelter, still in operation when I was there. I was surprised
to find that it was not on a great river with a giant hydroelectric dam, as essentially all of our aluminum smelters
have always been, aluminum taking huge amounts of electricity to smelt. The Krasnoturinsk plant was built in
WW2 at a coal mine location with nearby aluminum reserves. They powered the smelters with coal generated
power, a desperate, WW2 move. German prisoners were tasked with building the plant, and there is a relatively
new German-built memorial in the town for the 900+ German POWs who built the plant and never were sent home. Many
blonde people were seen in the tiny city when I was there. I would imagine that a huge portion of their aluminum
was used to make Sturmovicks (Il-2s). If you go to Google Earth, and search on Krasnoturinsk, you can see the
smelter, the cooling lake, power plant cooling towers and the small city. I was told that the cost of their aluminum
was too high due to the amount of coal needed and that the smelter would be closing when I was there about 5 years
ago.
If you zoom in on the dam, on the SE end of the curved lake, you can see the spillway, and next to it, a small peninsula
extending northward into the lake. Look closely and you see a paved area, a walking loop in the grass, and some long
grey objects. This the memorial to the Germans and the grey things are granite tablets with the names
of the German POWs who built the powerplant and town and were never released by the Russians.

Bill