Hardening lead and how it works

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Dog, are you using heat treated/quenched Pb/Sb alloy? If not they are as soft as that alloy can be already, by cooking the polymer bullets and allowing to cool you cannot make them any softer than they already are. If you quench your bullets they will be somewhat hardened and you will probably anneal them somewhat. See? Nothing complicated about it. :D

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L

Lost Dog

Guest
Ummm, ok....:confused:
I don't heat treat, water quench, or perform acts of voodoo upon my bullets. I just heat up my mystery metal of the month and using the same old Ideal dipper I started with and cast. Drop the rounds on a folded up towel in a cardboard box. Now I do cook em for those 10 minutes during the paint baking bit, but that's something new for me. And I like em too. Don't see myself ever using lube again. So I was just wondering. o_O
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Lost Dog,
Don't get overwhelmed. This place is call "Art and Science" My background is Science & technology so Sometimes I like to pick the fella's minds a bit!
Keeps things interesting! :)
Jim
 
L

Lost Dog

Guest
Thanks Jim.
A lot of what's said here is new to me, and I've been at it for well over half a century. But again I was contented with the manner of the outcome though. Suppose I'm just outdated is all.;)
 

Maven

Well-Known Member
I pretty much do as Lost Dog does (and get no appreciable bore leading) with the exception of powder coating. However, I much prefer swishing the sized and sometimes GC'ed CB's in Lar's Liquid Xlox to running them through my Lub-A-Matic.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
No voodoo Dog, It's nothing more than the metallurgy of lead alloys. These things and many more are in common use in the metals industry though of course on far larger scale.

No one here is attempting to make it harder or complicated. Curiosity of how & why was strong enough in some of us that we studied up on the metallurgy of lead alloys and how the metals industry does things and why, some of it applies directly to bullet casting. Since you're happy with your results you're doing it exactly right for you. Others are curious also and like to pick up on these techniques. Many things with the alloy can be tweaked for different loads, it can be fun, interesting and educational.

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JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Lost Dog:
Much of what I do is old school...one of my favorite case expanders still is my needle nose pliers! Every once in awhile I like to touch base with the other side just to see the math as to how things work!.... but when it comes down to reality I''m still banging away one round at a time! Yes the old way!
Jim
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I don't do many of the things mentined on the forum but it doesn't stop me from trying to learn more about them. Knowledge is always a good thing even if it is t put into use.

Heating bullet to cure Hi-Tek coating does need anneal the bullets. While the last coat can be water dropped it will not stop all the change in hardness. If I needed a harder bullet and wanted to use Hi-Tek I would use an allow that could give the hardness thru age hardening alone.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
10 minutes will barely start to melt cheese in a 350-f oven.
you can make toast in 4 minutes in that same oven, if you turn it over at the 2 minute mark.
I doubt your gonna do much heat soaking of a solid metal boolit in 10 minutes..
 
L

Lost Dog

Guest
Well, not meaning to sound like I'm complaining or nuthin but ever since I got here most things I've done for ages I've been told was wrong. So naturally I figured I hadda been doing something else wrong when I put bullets in a small oven to bake on paint. :eek:
But I'll tell ya I like the polymer finish, as this is the first time in three years I've whipped the leading issues in a couple of my weapons. So I guess I'm ok if the bullets sit in an oven and don't get hard as nails. This old dog's tail is wagging anyway. :)
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
ever since I got here most things I've done for ages I've been told was wrong.

I've read every single post made on this forum. I haven't read one yet that said you were wrong. You and anyone else that is happy with their results are doing it exactly right for them. There are nearly as many ways to go about this hobby as there are people doing it. Some are curious and want to learn new things and some don't.

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fiver

Well-Known Member
if anybody is doing stuff wrong I can guarantee it's me.

I don't measure hardly anything.
i use the wrong boolits for the intended job.
i don't have a single M-die.
i use dies intended for jacketed bullets.
i go waay off the published book data for many of my loads.
i melt lube in the micro-wave half the time.
flux? in my casting pot?
sure,,,,, about every 400 lbs of alloy i scrape the jebus out of my pot and light a fire on top.
then throw a bunch of alloy in a bucket along with the gunk.
i'll get it back later [shrug] maybe.
i use marvelux or straight borax from the laundry room sometimes.
the thermometer rarely gets put in anything.
matter of fact the last time i used it was when i was annealing some 40S&W cases to make 44 bullets out of.
P.I.D.?? yeah...NO.

i don't know if I'm right or wrong i just do what i think is right and get the results i may or may not have intended to get.
if not i try something else.
i doubt i do too much of anything the traditional way.
which some see as wrong, others see it as good-nuff.
i just see results and I'm good with that.
 
L

Lost Dog

Guest
Yes indeed fiver, I was told long ago "If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid. ".;)Aside from my new found joy of using polymer coatings, my technology probably hasn't advanced much since around the mid '70's when I bought a carbide die. Don't appear I've advanced much since then. I use seemingly unpopular moulds. There's no Dillon press on my bench. I have no chronograph. Compared to most I'm downright primitive! :eek: But I'm ok with that. And I do learn things daily. Just some of it is a bit much for me. So I'll hush and try learning something else today. ;):D
 

Ian

Notorious member
Fiver, there's a difference between understanding the properties of what you're working with and manipulating things to work for you (or leaving them alone) and not knowing or understanding. Gadgets can be good and they can also be a pita or get in the way. I do better with a casting thermometer than without, mainly because I have a cheap furnace that needs a tweak on the t-stat once in a while and the moulds do care if the alloy temperature swings off course. So do the rifles. Casting is like driving, after a while of looking at readouts, dials, scrutinizing every cast for defects, etc. you learn what to look for and sorta go on autopilot. If the pot will hold temperature where you put it and where you know it works, all you have to do is watch the sprue and that only takes the two gadgets you were born with. If guys want to use a PID on their pots and a temp probe hanging out of the end of their mould blocks, more power to them. I got rid of my PID years ago, more trouble for me than it was worth, and the SSR cost more than the furnace. When it fried, I punted it and went back to the Tel-True.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I rely on mass to keep the temperature consistent.
and I do just turn the dial to a slash mark.

but knowledge is the real big well evener of the playing field.
I know I have 'wasted' money/time on stuff seeing "what's what" but it's part of the learning process and kills a lot of time in the winter.
I see what happens, I like knowing what/why it's happening.