Hardening Screws Questions

[462]

I want to harden my Uberti/Cimarron Cattleman's screws. (They are so notoriously soft that the near approach of a parallel ground screwdriver causes their slots to deform, and the mere touch with a bit spots the bluing. )

Is it better to quench in water or oil?
If oil, does it matter what type?
Will the screws require re-bluing (cold)?

Thank you.

Michael

 

[Bret4207]

You can't harden them unless they contain enough carbon. IOW, if they are just mild steel, they won't harden. And then you have the issue of annealing them to the proper hardness after hardening. It might be better in the long run to see if someone offers an after market kit with good quality screws of the proper temper to start with.

 

[Rick]

You can't harden them unless they contain enough carbon. IOW, if they are just mild steel, they won't harden. And then you have the issue of annealing them to the proper hardness after hardening. It might be better in the long run to see if someone offers an after market kit with good quality screws of the proper temper to start with.

Yep . . .

Only real solution is to stop buying chinese made screws, bolts etc.

 

[RicinYakima]

Could you harden them with "Kasite"?

 

[462]

Only real solution is to stop buying chinese made screws, bolts etc.

Horrors! The Italians are buying Chi-Com screws?

You can't harden them unless they contain enough carbon. IOW, if they are just mild steel, they won't harden. And then you have the issue of annealing them to the proper hardness after hardening. It might be better in the long run to see if someone offers an after market kit with good quality screws of the proper temper to start with.

VTI offers "hardened" screws, but they cost twice that of Uberti's.

 

[smokeywolf]

Could you harden them with "Kasite"?

Kasenit (pack carburizing) will only case harden.

This may be one of those instances where you have to spend the money, cry once and be done with it.

 

[Rick]

Horrors! The Italians are buying Chi-Com screws?

Probably.

 

[Ian]

Italian screws, English screws, all made in CHINA! If you take the time to correctly grind some screw bits to exactly fit your screws, they become a lot less mangled. The key is EXACT fit.

Buy VTI. Good people to deal with. They should have "original" screw sets and probably some better ones, too.

Another piece of advice, having a whole fleet of Uberti revolvers, is buy a Wolf wire trigger/bolt spring and an extra-power base pin crossbolt spring. And buy a Brownell's hardened base pin. Recoil will peen a "daisy" on the edge of the base pin groove and you'll end up having to drive it out from the rear with a punch. Best to replace it now before that happens.

 

[462]

Italian screws, English screws, all made in CHINA! If you take the time to correctly grind some screw bits to exactly fit your screws, they become a lot less mangled. The key is EXACT fit.

Buy VTI. Good people to deal with. They should have "original" screw sets and probably some better ones, too.

Another piece of advice, having a whole fleet of Uberti revolvers, is buy a Wolf wire trigger/bolt spring and an extra-power base pin crossbolt spring. And buy a Brownell's hardened base pin. Recoil will peen a "daisy" on the edge of the base pin groove and you'll end up having to drive it out from the rear with a punch. Best to replace it now before that happens.

Yep, made sure a bit fit the screw exactly.
Replaced the .45-70 Pedersoli rolling block's broken firing pin with one from VTI. Good people, indeed.
I have the Wolff spring kit installed, but the main spring increased the trigger pull by half-a-pound, so the original was re-installed. Talked to a nice Wolff lady -- she said she'd never heard of it.
I'll look into Brownells base pin.
Thank you.

 

[oscarflytyer]

I have been told you can buy replacement hardened screws from Uberti. I need one for an 1873 model. Also told the trick is to get the right parts guy at Uberti when you call. No such luck for me - yet.

 

[Ian]

Just the crossbolt spring and wire trigger/bolt spring. OEM hammer springs are perfect IME, I never change those and never had a single issue with any of them.

The base pin is made of chewing gum, if I think about it later I'll take photos of some I've replaced. My Dad's 1873 clone was so bad I had to ream the cylinder and frame to clean the burrs/gouges and fit an oversized pin from Brownell's. Solved the problem.

 

[462]

Recoil will peen a "daisy" on the edge of the base pin groove and you'll end up having to drive it out from the rear with a punch.

Mine is the Cattleman II, made sometime in '22, and has the "safety" system as pictured on page 13.

What you describe is the "safety" system as pictured on page 14. According to a Uberti employee (via duckduckgo) that system will cause base pin groove peening by dry firing.

Seems Uberti's Single Action Army clone safety concerns are no different than Ruger's and they created an unintended problem that has since been addressed by a better system.

https://www.ubertireplicas.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/LIBRETTO-Istruzioni-SINGLE-ACTION-2016.pdf

 

[Ian]

All mine have the pin system like on page 15. Put the base pin in the correct notch for firing and recoil drives the pin forward against the cross bolt. The sharp edge of the step in the cross bolt peens a notch in the base pin at the edge of the wasp waist and the pin gets staked into the frame. If the base pins are still made of putty I expect they'll still have the trouble. Just keep an eye on the base pin when you clean it and if it starts to stick in the frame or get burred up, you might want to replace it with a better one. The stronger crossbolt spring will help.