Henry 45-70 Load level
- Thread starter dale2242
- Start date
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I have read that they are but honestly cannot say with 100% certainty.
Having said that, there is very little that cannot be achieved with loads within TD perimeters.
CW
Having said that, there is very little that cannot be achieved with loads within TD perimeters.
CW
Missionary
Well-Known Member
I would call Henry.
With our Henry in 41 mag they stated any load sold by any ammo manufacturer was acceptable and safe..
Some of those "custom" fellers load some hot .41 stuff....
We happily just get out a bigger caliber 40 some rifle and use that.
With our Henry in 41 mag they stated any load sold by any ammo manufacturer was acceptable and safe..
Some of those "custom" fellers load some hot .41 stuff....
We happily just get out a bigger caliber 40 some rifle and use that.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
The Henry chambered in .45-70 is safe for standard SAAMI spec. commerical ammunition (28K psi) which puts it in the "Marlin .45-70" terroitory.
richhodg66
Well-Known Member
This.
Never have quite understood why everybody wants to turn the .45-70 into a fire breather, it's very effective the way it was designed.
Rick H
Well-Known Member
I have the Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70 and can attest that upper end Trapdoor level loads do all I could ask of it. They also are decidedly unpleasant to shoot from the bench. 300gr. Jkt. at 1880fps, 350 gr. cast or jkt at 1800 fps. and 385gr. cast at 1750. All give me a point blank range of 150 yds on medium sized game. The 300 gr. jkt. load is like Thor's hammer on deer.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I have a #1 Lee Enfield in 45-70. When you start pushing the 45-70 things can get pretty stout real fast. I have no experience with the Henrys of any type, but I'm betting that recoil will be a bigger factor than action strength in figuring out where you want to stop.
RBHarter
West Central AR
The CIP loaded ammunition for 45-70 is loaded to 34kpsi based on all of my research . The imports to most of Europe must proof with no stretch in this case to 47kpsi . That's one round once I believe. The PPU 45-70-405 JSP I bought at the same time as the 1895G Remington assembled with Marlin parts in Illion is plenty enthusiastic for my wants .
Although presumptuous ii would expect the Henry to be safe even in the whatchamacallit brass guns for Euro ammo as so much is imported and they are exported .
Just food for thought because I like comparison numbers as a floating but fixed point of reference.
45-70-500 to 530 gets into "free BC" , inertia out weighs shape at this point for momentum and by association impact energy .
With a 150 yd zero at 1100 fps MV it hits 8" high at 100 yards and 10" low at 200 yd , 4' at 300 yd but it still has over 1000 ftlb . Nope it's not flat shooting not even as a pleasant day dream , but for 25% of it's modern list of uses and 85% of it's hunting application it's plenty flat enough. With numbers plugged into the Strelok ballistic calculator the hotrod Hornady 325 (I think that was the one) with box numbers doesn't deliver any more .
Last trivia bit . Per Lyman 48 and forward the only difference between a Trapdoor safe 45-110-405 , and probably a 45-90-405 with the same barrel , loaded with a Win 405 SP jacket and a 458 WM is 20kpsi and 10" of barrel . That speaks volumes to me as it suggests that the difference between a 32-34 kpsi 45-70 and a 58kpsi 458 isn't nearly as great as marketing would suggest. If we put the 458 in a handy 18" brush gun carbine and the 45-70 in a 24-26" rifle I'd bet that live numbers are a lot closer .
With a 350 and lighter bullet in the more popular <20" barrels it's a simple matter of running out of powder capacity and barrel acceleration length at a pressure point that limits the cartridge. There only so much you can get out of it .
I out grew getting kicked by a mule about the same time I broke 140# and moved into a LG tee shirt , I guess about 1986 or so . In about 2000 I discovered how huge stock fit was in comfort at the shot .
I wouldn't feed a new Henry a steady diet of 96' and Marlin compatible 35kpsi loads even if it's rated for them and the internals are a clone of the 1895 Marlin because when it comes down to raw numbers inside John Average's iron sights ranges it doesn't matter. Even a fairly sedate 1600 fps 250-350 gr bullet is plenty for daily use and probably good enough for <elk and any bear south of Wyoming........might be a little sketchy with those 8' long armadillos in South America .......
Although presumptuous ii would expect the Henry to be safe even in the whatchamacallit brass guns for Euro ammo as so much is imported and they are exported .
Just food for thought because I like comparison numbers as a floating but fixed point of reference.
45-70-500 to 530 gets into "free BC" , inertia out weighs shape at this point for momentum and by association impact energy .
With a 150 yd zero at 1100 fps MV it hits 8" high at 100 yards and 10" low at 200 yd , 4' at 300 yd but it still has over 1000 ftlb . Nope it's not flat shooting not even as a pleasant day dream , but for 25% of it's modern list of uses and 85% of it's hunting application it's plenty flat enough. With numbers plugged into the Strelok ballistic calculator the hotrod Hornady 325 (I think that was the one) with box numbers doesn't deliver any more .
Last trivia bit . Per Lyman 48 and forward the only difference between a Trapdoor safe 45-110-405 , and probably a 45-90-405 with the same barrel , loaded with a Win 405 SP jacket and a 458 WM is 20kpsi and 10" of barrel . That speaks volumes to me as it suggests that the difference between a 32-34 kpsi 45-70 and a 58kpsi 458 isn't nearly as great as marketing would suggest. If we put the 458 in a handy 18" brush gun carbine and the 45-70 in a 24-26" rifle I'd bet that live numbers are a lot closer .
With a 350 and lighter bullet in the more popular <20" barrels it's a simple matter of running out of powder capacity and barrel acceleration length at a pressure point that limits the cartridge. There only so much you can get out of it .
I out grew getting kicked by a mule about the same time I broke 140# and moved into a LG tee shirt , I guess about 1986 or so . In about 2000 I discovered how huge stock fit was in comfort at the shot .
I wouldn't feed a new Henry a steady diet of 96' and Marlin compatible 35kpsi loads even if it's rated for them and the internals are a clone of the 1895 Marlin because when it comes down to raw numbers inside John Average's iron sights ranges it doesn't matter. Even a fairly sedate 1600 fps 250-350 gr bullet is plenty for daily use and probably good enough for <elk and any bear south of Wyoming........might be a little sketchy with those 8' long armadillos in South America .......
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
I ran some upper end level 2 loads in the model '86 Winchester SRC (1905-ish manufacture w/"Nickel Steel" barrel) a couple of times and decided even if the rifle was up to it, I wasn't anymore.
I stick with low end trapdoor loads for the Springfield TD and upper end TD - lower end level 2 loads for the model '86.
I stick with low end trapdoor loads for the Springfield TD and upper end TD - lower end level 2 loads for the model '86.
Ian
Notorious member
Also severely underpowered for the armadillos we have in Texas. Some of them are big enough to catch on the run, turn over, and drink up a full 53' dry van of Lone Star beer.
richhodg66
Well-Known Member
I live maybe 60 miles from the Nebraska border, wayyyyy too far north for Armadillos traditional range. Yet we have found a couple around here and if one drives an hour or so south, you see road killed ones fairly commonly, so it's just a matter of time.
I have lived off and on in southern Oklahoma and they are quite common. I don't suppose they are that big a problem, but they sure used to annoy me while bowhunting from a tree stand.
I have lived off and on in southern Oklahoma and they are quite common. I don't suppose they are that big a problem, but they sure used to annoy me while bowhunting from a tree stand.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
In our area of southern Peru, west side of the Andes and at 8000-11,000 ft. (general altitude where we live and for the places I roam about), we have no armadillos I have seen or heard about.
But there are wild bulls which (happily) do not enjoy bi-ped company. They generally like about a 1/2 mile buffer which I am more than glad to give them when I am on foot. Have heard they can be very sneeky and a few people have been found well stomped into the desert soil.
But there are wild bulls which (happily) do not enjoy bi-ped company. They generally like about a 1/2 mile buffer which I am more than glad to give them when I am on foot. Have heard they can be very sneeky and a few people have been found well stomped into the desert soil.
eat ground hornet nests - now if we can just train them to eat fire ants! Last time I was at the ranch, she showed me a 15 ft dia ant pile. One of the GKs wanted to poke it with a stick. Nope, don't do that!
Actually dillos do OK in cold weather, just need a bunch of grubs. They are slow so it takes a few years to get north.
Actually dillos do OK in cold weather, just need a bunch of grubs. They are slow so it takes a few years to get north.
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RBHarter
West Central AR
There's a herd of I guess 25-30 now in a wilderness not far from Arc Dome in Nevada just east over the ridge from the Reese River head waters . As it goes a couple of lost Angus short horns survived the winter , as I was told , between 1955 and 1958 . They ain't coming out now . Several ranchers have tried to get them out mostly they seem to end up walking out with either a vet bill or an empty saddle . I've thought several times about shooting one but figured they'd act like buffalo/bison and that'd be a waste .
Texas tactical possums ain't so tuff . A 45 at 7yd and cut their throat they go right down. The plan was to head her off . Little low and too far back ...... Hog hunt they wanted all the pests removed too .
Texas tactical possums ain't so tuff . A 45 at 7yd and cut their throat they go right down. The plan was to head her off . Little low and too far back ...... Hog hunt they wanted all the pests removed too .
BBerguson
Official Pennsyltuckian
Yeah, at 17 I was working for a farmer and bush hogging a field that had been plowed years ago but never planted. It was rough!!! Anyways, was happily mowing and all of a sudden noticed the tractors was swarmed by yellow jackets. Probably should have kept going but didn’t. Kicked the shifter to neutral, jumped and ran my a55 off! After 100 yards or so I turned to see if I was safe and fell flat on my back. Luckily I hadn’t been followed. Had to walk about a mile back to the barn and then made a plan with my buddy to retrieve the tractor which was still running wide open. I can’t remember why, (paper, rock scissors maybe) but he ended up with the bee helmet, long sleeve shirt and gloves and had to get on the tractor and get it out of there. Neither of us got stung! Ah, the good old days…
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
IIRC - Brian Pearce wrote an article on the Henrys. Can't recall if it was just a rifle review (I think it was), or reloading oriented (don't think it was). But also recall that he put the Henry in the Marlin category. Also recall from somewhere that Henry wouldn't specify - zero recall where or in what exact context.
I can say that for my Marlin (1895 I had, and for the 1895 CB I just upgraded to), My Trapdoor cast load (38.5 gr IMR3031 pushing Lee 405 HB 1350 fps) has done everything I need or want, and doesn't abuse ME! I am experimenting with some Ranch Dog lighter bullets, and also some 2400 at slightly heavier loads, but not much. That Trapdoor is just plain comfortable and fun to shoot and takes care of business long as I poke the deer in thru the shoulders (cause a RN design). The RD FN I would poke em in the ribs...
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
The 45/70 just plain WORKS. The current arms on hand are a Bubba'ed TD that I will get around to some level of restoration upon--Buffington sight and all--and a Marlin 1895 that is definitely a Wednesday-made rifle. .459" Lee 405s stack one on top of the other at 50 yards and threaten 1.5" at 100 yards.
I have TD-level loads assembled as follows--WW cases primed with Fed #215. 6.0 grains of IMR-4198 next to the primer, then 48.0 grains of WC-860. Seat the Lee 405 with a bit of powder compression to keep things stacked properly, and sally forth. This has been my go-to 45/70 TD-level load since the late 1990s. In a good rifle, it will print 1.25" to 1.5"groups at 100 yards, and not beat the daylights out of you from the bench. In my misspent youth, I was fond of running Hornady 350s at 2000-2100 FPS through my Ruger #1, but in the fullness of time better sense finally dawned upon me and Bret's assessment one post north became canon.
About that same time, it occurred to me that the S&W Model 29/629 revolvers weren't the best choice for full-tilt hand-cannon recreation. Cast Keith SWCs at 900-950 FPS make a lot more sense (and can be enjoyed rather than endured while discharging them).
We grow too soon old and too late smart.
I have TD-level loads assembled as follows--WW cases primed with Fed #215. 6.0 grains of IMR-4198 next to the primer, then 48.0 grains of WC-860. Seat the Lee 405 with a bit of powder compression to keep things stacked properly, and sally forth. This has been my go-to 45/70 TD-level load since the late 1990s. In a good rifle, it will print 1.25" to 1.5"groups at 100 yards, and not beat the daylights out of you from the bench. In my misspent youth, I was fond of running Hornady 350s at 2000-2100 FPS through my Ruger #1, but in the fullness of time better sense finally dawned upon me and Bret's assessment one post north became canon.
About that same time, it occurred to me that the S&W Model 29/629 revolvers weren't the best choice for full-tilt hand-cannon recreation. Cast Keith SWCs at 900-950 FPS make a lot more sense (and can be enjoyed rather than endured while discharging them).
We grow too soon old and too late smart.
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