Ideas for bedding a Ruger #3

[Chris]

Recently bought a 200th year Ruger #3 in .45/70, it's in mint condition. My first single shot.

I have shot about 150 rounds of cast on paper, 3 bullets and 4 powders at varying levels on the mild side of things. Just looking for a decent load at the plinking level and around 14-1500 for hunting. Trying to assess accuracy potential.

A pattern, with an exception or two, has devoped which makes me consider bedding issues. Light loads, i.e. 10-13 grains of Unique (315 to 420 grain cast) shoot very well, easily inside 1.5" at 50 yards using the factory leaf and bead sights. Get to 14 grains of Unique, or equivalent velocity using 4759 or 2400 and the groups just blow up... I mean bad. It just vomits my favorite load of 24/2400. Generally there is visible a vertical stringing component.

I'm thinking to bed the forend, later the buttstock. Do you guys have experience with this, can you comment on bedding success in #1 or #3 Ruger?

I have been reading a bit since I am new to this rifle, although I am not new to accurizing rifles with two-piece stocks.. I have studied McPherson's accuracy book and crawled the internet and have been able to determine a general direction, but guidance from anyone with experience will be helpful.

Summing what I read, the accuracy issue is with improper/erratic contact between forend and barrel, as well as forend contact with the action. Near unanimous that relieving contact (freefloating) between barrel and forend/action bears fruit. The barrel/action should not touch the forend except at a created pressure point. Also, the barrel band should be relieved where it touches the upper side of the barrel.

There appear to be two camps, those who use a shim of some kind between the barrel and forend hanger (or bed in a Hicks device, or a screw to provide pressure to barrel) to provide wood/metal clearnce and support the barrel, and those who put pressure on the barrel at the forend tip. This is done using bedding compound, strip of rubber, maybe ATV (which makes sense to me). There aren't a lot of barrel threads in the action, so it makes sense to support the barrel... the question is where, how, and how much pressure. Shooting groups may well determine the amount of pressure needed.

So that is what I read. Anybody have any experience or cautions they can relate?

 

[Bill]

A friend of mine has the number one in 222 swift, he had to go with an after market fore end hanger

Bill

 

[Ian]

I'm no help, but with the information in McPherson's levergun book and your other research, I think you're on track.

The only flaw in the plan of using wood to put pressure on steel is of course that wood is fallible. I avoid that whenever possible. I'd think the best course of action is to isolate and dampen as much as possible, in this case fully bedding the forearm to the barrel and relieving/RTV-silicone-bedding the forearm/receiver contact point might be an option.

The other thing that springs to mind is that vertical stringing often precedes an accuracy node by about 5% (ish) powder charge.

 

[RicinYakima]

The old Wolfe Publishing softbound book "Gunsmithing Tips and Projects" has extensive articles on Ruger 1's and 3's written in the 1970's, FWIW.

 

[Eutectic]

I think that the Hicks type arrangement that stiffens the forend hanger against the barrel is a good idea. The mainspring is housed in this hanger as you know which makes more 'flex' a variable because of it as well. I have the Hicks in a #1B .35 Whelen. It has helped that one! The 1B forend has the sling swivel in it which is another problem if carried that way. My #1 .405 has a homemade tensioner like the Hicks. A couple inches of glass bedding at forend tip as well with light pressure. It shoots! None on my #3s which is your interest Chris. I modified the barrel band for a while with a sling swivel addition to it. They shot pretty good that way too! But the my #3 .223 I removed the band and slenderized the forend ..... and it shoots like a varmint rifle!

Guess what I'm sayin' is those Ruger single shots are like a fussy dog that only likes it head scratched a certain way! Experiment your way to accuracy has been my approach!

Pete

 

[Chris]

The old Wolfe Publishing softbound book "Gunsmithing Tips and Projects" has extensive articles on Ruger 1's and 3's written in the 1970's, FWIW.

Ric, I am only able to locate an 1989-1990 edition and a recent 2nd edition. Is there a possibility that you are thinking of the 1990 edition? I ask because I am inclined to buy the book. Thanks.

 

[JWFilips]

Check with Ben, he is the master bedder here!

 

[Chris]

I think that the Hicks type arrangement that stiffens the forend hanger against the barrel is a good idea. The mainspring is housed in this hanger as you know which makes more 'flex' a variable because of it as well. I have the Hicks in a #1B .35 Whelen. It has helped that one! The 1B forend has the sling swivel in it which is another problem if carried that way. My #1 .405 has a homemade tensioner like the Hicks. A couple inches of glass bedding at forend tip as well with light pressure. It shoots! None on my #3s which is your interest Chris. I modified the barrel band for a while with a sling swivel addition to it. They shot pretty good that way too! But the my #3 .223 I removed the band and slenderized the forend ..... and it shoots like a varmint rifle!

Guess what I'm sayin' is those Ruger single shots are like a fussy dog that only likes it head scratched a certain way! Experiment your way to accuracy has been my approach!

Pete

That makes sense, Pete, thanks. I'll try the work incrementally and test by shooting groups.

First relieve wood contact with barrel action, I believe I can do that experimentally without sanding inside the forend. Then a forend pad which I can simulate using tape or card stock under the barrel. Won't use any glass bed unless I can see an improvement in accuracy, I can back out of the work and try something else, i.e. Hicks or D/T the forend hanger for a barrel support screw.

 

[Chris]

I'm no help, but with the information in McPherson's levergun book and your other research, I think you're on track.

The only flaw in the plan of using wood to put pressure on steel is of course that wood is fallible. I avoid that whenever possible. I'd think the best course of action is to isolate and dampen as much as possible, in this case fully bedding the forearm to the barrel and relieving/RTV-silicone-bedding the forearm/receiver contact point might be an option.

The other thing that springs to mind is that vertical stringing often precedes an accuracy node by about 5% (ish) powder charge.

Thanks for the reminder about an approaching accuracy node, I will keep that in mind.

The forend is attached to a steel hanger that in turn is fixed to the action... like a steel cantilever beam that hangs out there with a piece of wood attached for the hand. There doesn't seem to be any particular reason to have the forend contact the barrel, and from what I read consensus is to isolate the wood so that it touches neither barrel nor action, just the hanger. There is a big old spring attached to the hanger, and when you fire the rifle it sproings around and moves the hanger and wood this way and that in an unpredictable manner... it probably is unhelpful to the barrel.

That said, some report good success full length bedding the forend to the barrel and if it works I'm in. Also, some like a pressure point, some don't. What Pete says resonates with me, we each got to scratch our dog the way it likes to be scratched, there is no universal solution. I'm figuring a way that I can try several approaches experimentally without significantly modifying the rifle.

 

[Ian]

I've used layers of aluminum HVAC tape (you know the stuff, "Beagling tape" thanks to Mr. John Goins!) to build temporary, experimental pressure points.

 

[Chris]

I've used layers of aluminum HVAC tape (you know the stuff, "Beagling tape" thanks to Mr. John Goins!) to build temporary, experimental pressure points.

Yeah, that would do it. Reading this, I just recalled from an accurizing book I bought recently written by a gentleman from NZ, that he uses an auto body compound as temporary bedding in bolt guns. That's actually a good idea, try your ideas and hog out the stuff if it doesn't work. Now I need to get the book back from my neighbor, I haven't even read it yet!

 

[KHornet]

Have never done anything to my #3 in K hornet except shoot it.
After over 3500 rds, it is still capable of MOA and has killed pdogs
to a max of a bit of over 225 yd. My three #1's are in the same
bracket, and are as I bought them. I learned many years ago not
to fix what already works well.

Paul

 

[fiver]

I'd use a gas check bullet.

 

[Eutectic]

I modified the barrel band for a while with a sling swivel addition to it. They shot pretty good that way too!

This is my .45-70 #3. I machined the swivel from 4140 and then milled it to fit in the gap on the barrel band. Works well and very strong! Three of my #3's still have them and they have seen many miles on dirt bikes to attest their strength. Best way I found on the #3. They shot well with the clamp area very tight on the swivel. All this reminds me of my #3 LaBounty rebore in .284 Win! Killed my biggest antelope in his tracks with that gun. Think I'll 'dig' it out...

Pete

 

[Chris]

That is smart, Pete.

 

[Chris]

I received a free promotional copy of Frank DeHaas "Mr. Single Shot's Gunsmithing - idea book" for signing up for an online subscription. He did extensive work on Ruger singleshots and tested the efficacy of four forend bedding techniques on target. The book covers all sorts of single shots, rolling blocks, Martinis, the works.

I see the hardcover sells for $175 on Amazon. Anybody wants a .pdf copy send me a PM, I'll supply a dropbox link for a week or two.

 

[RicinYakima]

Chris, Yes, it is the 1990 edition that is a compilation of articles from Handloader and Rifle from 1966 through 1987, FIRC. I don't do much gunsmithing anymore, or I would buy on of the 2nd edition. Ric

 

[Pistolero]

What little bit I have read (do not have one of these guns) is that they need the forend bedded to the
hanger on the front for best accy. Can't say any more, I would be telling more than I know.

Good luck.

Bill

 

[Chris]

Success today. I wanted to test proof of concept, so I did some minor sanding inside the forend... just enough to remove varnish... and stuck a rubbery shim inside the tip of the forend. I could pass a sheet of typing paper around the barrel.

A favorite load of LBT 410 and 24/2400 had previously scattered 5 shots into 6X8", now it's inside 2" and much more round. This is with factory leaf and bead sights at 50.

I guess I will go ahead and follow McPherson's advice and do a complete tuneup on the forend. Maybe I'll take photos along the way in case someone else wants to see how to do it.