Ideas on a 1000+ yard build.

[Brian Palmer]

Decided I want to build a precision long range rifle. Thinking 7mm-08 is what I am going to run. Its a cal I all ready have and love. Now to decide AR10, Rem 700, or something else. Looking for input from those with experance in that type of shooting and rifles.

 

[Ian]

6.5 Creedmore would be my go-to for that kind of range and not trying to kill stuff. McMillan and scratch-built 700 stuff is tough to beat for the price, though one of my personal least-favorite actions.

 

[Brad]

A Remington 700 made into a tube gun is damn hard to beat for the price.
I would lean towards a 6.5 of some sort, maybe even a small 6mm set up for 110 Sierra. The 6XC isn't a bad choice.

 

[RBHarter]

Have the machine work done by Malcome Ballistic Tool even if you do the rest yourself .

I like the 7mms . If you can get a 11 or 12 twist instead of the usual 8.5 and 9.5 it will be even better .

Lots of good actions a few great actions .

 

[fiver]

mating a good BR action to a quality barrel and putting about 50grs of powder behind a 6.5 or 7mm bullet about 2"s long should do pretty well.

 

[Longone]

Do you plan on shooting from the bench, prone, F class? Lots of things to consider, the 7-08 would not be my choice as it has a limited powder reservoir.

 

[Eutectic]

We lasered-in a 1000 yard range on BLM land here several years back. We've shot quite a variety of calibers across "our canyons"!
I bought a new Remington 700V in 7mm-08 several years back when they were briefly offered. What a closeout price I got! After pillar bedding and getting the stock where I wanted it....... It's a shooter! I shot it at 600 yards in Texas.... (Can you believe we couldn't find a 1000 yard spot in Texas Ian??) I had .284" 168gr Match Kings which it really shot.... But I had these 150gr 'Ballistic Tip' beauties that had a ballistic coefficient up in the stratosphere somewhere. The 168gr Sierras kicked their you know what at 600 yards for drop.... I mean BAD! 'Real Field' B.C.'s can be real enlightening! That's when I learned that the light plastic tip.... pointed it may be.... was a little like running a foot race with pointed galoshes on!!!

Two guns are reigning champions at 1000 over the years.... One is my 7mm-08. The other is a Winchester Model 70 in .300 H&H !! (So new isn't necessarily better)
Paul, our gunsmith, even built guns just to try beating Ralph and I. His best rifle was a 6.5 x .284. He used a .264 Mag with a 1 in 8" twist he did well with as well. He even built a .22 on the .284 case! He used the 69gr Match Kings..... Did better than I thought it would; but sensitive over that long distance.

We even took flight times over 1000 yards. The shortest time was the .300 H&H pushing a 190gr Match King. My 7mm-08 beat the .308 sniper rifles by two tenths of a second over a thousand; both with 168gr Match Kings on board!

Pete

 

[Brian Palmer]

I think Brad hit the spot. My normal scatter brain on ideas and keeping up with life I completely brain farted tube guns!

Mostly playing around Longone. The local club has a long range shoot once a month I would do for fun, but most of it would be on my own place 500ish yards just testing myself.

 

[Ian]

The problem with having 1000 yards for a safe shooting session in Texas is having wealthy enough friends. No public land that one can shoot on (except for very limited game management hunts which are more difficult to get on than a moose lottery) means lots of wide-open spaces all privately owned.

 

[RBHarter]

I have a place that is about 3 miles by boat and 20 to drive where you can see the target from a bench but not prone if you really , really want to reach out there . It's about an honest 12 miles of BLM /Forest service land on the beaches of a terminal lake . A few antelope seasonally the mustangs clear off after the first shot then it's just you ,coyotes and jackrabbits . Another 10 miles and you can shoot across dry lake beds that are flat to concave for 3-5 miles . 1000 yds is easy to find out here . I hosted an event on a clay flat with 740 yd over 300 yd wide .
I'll miss that but being able to use the porch rails for a bench has it's perks too .

 

[Eutectic]

but being able to use the porch rails for a bench has it's perks too .

Yeah...... Being able to shoot from the porch; out your windows; off your deck.... I've dreamed about it in my youth! Finally the dream came true almost 4 decades ago.

Pete

 

[JSH]

Decided I want to build a precision long range rifle. Thinking 7mm-08 is what I am going to run. Its a cal I all ready have and love. Now to decide AR10, Rem 700, or something else. Looking for input from those with experance in that type of shooting and rifles.

Well from your opening statement, precision long range rifle for 1k. In a nut shell to play any of the games, the 7-08 ain't gonna cut it, and be competitive.
What one considers precision, can also lead to a lot of discussion.
If your going to drop the coin to build a true precision rifle, I would suggest a lot of study.
I would review scores and winners from matches at least five years back.
It becomes an equipment race for sure.
But, the bottom line lies on the person on the trigger. I have seen it time and again.
Joe Smith commissions the latest greatest for what ever discipline, and still finishes no better than he did with an off the shelf rig.
Yet, John Jones comes out with his old rifle and whips the socks off of Joe, every time.

I have a rig or two that is very competitive @ 1k, but not with me on the trigger. That is about as honest as I can be. One of these rifles I all but was ready to throw it in the junk I was so frustrated. I am very fortunate to have several friends that are very good to say the least. They shot the junker, and I was just shocked! And they did it more than once to boot.

On the builder side. I am to the point I want ONE hunting rifle that shoots no more than MOA @ 300, on demand. I spoke to a few rifle loonies that are friends of mine. They all pointed me to the same gent to build a rifle. I called and spoke with this smith and we went through everything I am sure he has heard thousands of times. Th one question I asked that really made a bunch of sense to me. I asked about an accuracy guarantee. His comment to the effect was no he does not. I asked why. His reply was honest, because I do not know how well you can shoot.
That is a brutal fact.
He said the best I can say is you will be happy with it.

I have a Savage F/TR in 308. It has less than 700 rounds down the tube. It is the most rational rifle I have. With lapua cases, 155 Palma's, and a case full of Varget. It will stay in the X ring at 1k, wind and weather will push them out every once in a while. This is a bone stock rifle,out of the box. Tinkered with the trigger and that is it. That was right at $1000 tax and all. Best money I ever spent on a rifle, period.

Brian this is not meant as a slam or any down play to you or anyone. This just a couple of things I myself have seen or done.

I just don't like to see folks put out good money and then be disappointed at the end results.

Don't settle for less than you want. If you do, you will never have confidence in the rig.
If you really want the 7-08,
And have confidence it will do the job to your standards, then by all means go for it.

If you review past and present scores, it is interesting what is in the top five year to year. A lot of folks will say the super duper laser jet 6mmXSS is what is winning. Then look at the calibers, there are only two others in the field besides the "fad caliber". So, your dang right it is in the top 5 every match!

A build is fun, shooting should be fun. When it becomes anything but a labor of love or passion, it will be bad on the return side.

Enough of my blabber.
Continue on with your quest and good luck.
Jeff

 

[Brian Palmer]

Thanks for the input Jeff. I think im stuck on 7mm-08 kinda nostalgia. The research I have looked its not the top choice but it will do what I want for now. Looking for now just to test myself and play locally. A 2 year old and a 6 month old true competition will have to wait a couple years. Debating of I want a dedicated rig or a combo hunting and playing range rig.

 

[fiver]

might as well just go to a 308 then.

Pete's response made me smile a bit.
then I remembered I gotta drive like 8 miles to our 1,000 yd [actual] range and wasn't amused.

 

[Brian Palmer]

7mm-08 has better ballistics across the board than the 308. Not significantly, but it really starts so pull away at distance.

 

[RBHarter]

More so at the upper weights where MV starts within 100 fps . Don't sell a 7x57 short in current production .

Build the 7-08 on a long action and when it starts to open up 7x57AI or 280 AI reamer will bring it all back . At least for a few more rounds .

The grace of the 7mm is in the bullet selection that nearly matches , until the BO became mainstream, 30 cal . Useable bullets from 120-175 gr vs the 27s what's there 90-150 and many of those a cartridge specific . Then there's BC coupled with higher MV than 270 and nearly .1 on the 30s . Now if the bbl makers weren't all hung up on the super fast 1895 twist rates or the super VLD class bullets were more available then the 7mm would be perfect.

Opinionated a little maybe .....

 

[Brian Palmer]

I have the Spanish Muasers in 7x57. I havent ran that cal much but I read amazing things about it. Including how in the early battles of the Boer wars the Boers handed to the Brits becouse of it.

 

[Brad]

More powder space means more velocity. That leads to less wind drift. The trade off is in barrel life.
Look at the balance between down range ballistics and barrel/throat life.
What are your needs and willingness to pay to get it? Don't forget that the barrel will erode with time and that should be a factor in your choices.
If barrel life isn't an issue a 6.5-284 is never a bad choice.

 

[Eutectic]

I thought I'd share a few more of my thoughts on shooting 1000 (or beyond)

We compete.... But it's only against each other. Harassment can be heavy..... We tried several different targets. Trouble is the target's are over a half mile away... We don't have anything that can 'spot' holes 7mm or smaller very well in different lighting.

We drove several (6) metal fence posts across the level shelf at 1000 yards. We have a 4' x 8' plywood sheet to staple targets on... This requires bringing a 4 wheeler along to check targets, or use your truck ( and stop 50 yards short)
We tried gallon milk jugs filled with water. Can't see the hits! Maybe you'll see a wet spot with the spotting scope...... A jug of water hit at 1000 yards is pretty un-climatic. And people hunt live stuff this far?

So we mostly competed with minute of angle balloons! One of the group at the start had a huge bag of balloons.Blown up they were 8 1/2" to 9" in diameter, actually a little smaller than MOA. These were fun! Taped to a fence post there was no doubt if the shooter got a hit. We still needed a spotter as most of us couldn't see the balloon with the naked eye at 1000.

I shot a group one day with my 7mm-08 I mentioned above. I rode the four wheeler up. It was a dead calm morning...... Four shots were in 3 1/4" !!! The fifth opened it to 6" !!!!. Maybe it was a cold start? Don't laugh...... Jacketed can cold start on the first one just like cast. Usually it is a very small amount. But 1000 yards can throw small things right into your face! Bottomline.... The 7mm-08 may not be the best 1000 yard choice..... But see if the 'top dog' can put most of the group in 3 1/4".

Brad's comment about wind drift is a good one..... Flight time is something 'normal' people don't talk about. But it's a big thing for 1000 yards! A full second or more is a L O N G time for our bullet to be exposed to many outside influences. So shorter flight times make a lot of sense. I have an OLD Norwegian ballistic program... I mean old (it runs on DOS!) But it accurate! It will do about anything too. I ran downrange ballistics on # 7 1/2 shot one time.!!!!! IT WILL CALCULATE FLIGHT TIME FOR 1000 YARDS for a given bullet and load. So I did a few for kicks! Using Sierra's B.C.'s .... My friend Carlos (nicknamed after the Marine sniper) His 700 sniper rifle .308 load has a flight time over 1000 of 1.68 seconds. My 7mm-08 load has a flight time of 1.49 seconds. Ralph's 190gr MK .300 H&H load has a flight time of 1.28 seconds! My VERY accurate .45 Gold Cup load with the H&G 68 has a 1000 yard flight time of 6.84 seconds!!!! Yep on a dead calm day I've been known to put most of a clip on that 4'x8' plywood sheet mentioned. You wait forever but a hit slaps that wood with a sound you can hear at the gun!!! (At least a young guy can) Where do I hold???? On a sagebush way up the side of the mountain! Drop from a 50 yard sight-in is 503 FEET!

Pete

 

[JWFilips]

Brian,
I think you may need Waco to chime in here!
Jim