I'm sure this might seem silly to a lot of you but......
- Thread starter waco
- Start date
Eutectic
Active Member
I've got a 1910 manufactured Model 97. The Lemhi county sheriff here bought it in Salmon new in 1912 when he was in office. The gun has been here ever since and is the one I shoot most in vintage clays. This is not the eye candy I've attached however!!!!
I got the gun pictured in 1961..... This Pigeon Grade Model 1897 was manufactured in 1898 and I have factory paperwork from Cody. It had every option that was available and cost $187.00 in 1899. It is in excellent condition and has original finish they say is 95%. It has never had a plastic shell fired in it!!!! I broke a 25 straight in Skeet in 1998 to celebrate it's 100th birthday..... It was also on Teddy Roosevelt's 140th birthday! How I got this gun and for what is also a long unbelievable story.... But I've probably 'storied' you fine fellows out by now....
Pete
I got the gun pictured in 1961..... This Pigeon Grade Model 1897 was manufactured in 1898 and I have factory paperwork from Cody. It had every option that was available and cost $187.00 in 1899. It is in excellent condition and has original finish they say is 95%. It has never had a plastic shell fired in it!!!! I broke a 25 straight in Skeet in 1998 to celebrate it's 100th birthday..... It was also on Teddy Roosevelt's 140th birthday! How I got this gun and for what is also a long unbelievable story.... But I've probably 'storied' you fine fellows out by now....
Pete
Ian
Notorious member
Right. My memory is shorter than... never mind...
Eutectic
Active Member
The simple answer Ian is it spent many, many, years in the dark! The amazing part is why.....
My whole family has always thought I missed my calling.... They all think I should have been in forensic work.
I do love detective work... I love the firearms ammunition part. Heck they could be right.Like I said it is a long story how this gun became mine. I didn't even want it much when it did!
I won't go into the whole story for this answer; but enough for you to get some details. I know you like details.When I first got it I thought the original owner was a trap shooter. The barrel was a matted top (no ribs back then) Full choke. 28" length. For this early of '97 this is an uncommon short length! A special order length.... I marveled at its condition; marveled even more that the takedown tightening adjustment was still on its first notch; never moved! These two items were fantastic clues.... But I wouldn't know clues for what for another 37 years!!!!! So I took it after I really didn't want it much and put it away; locked in the dark...... For years!
I shot a lot with my good friend in Connor, Montana. He's a double man, the side by side type; a fabulous Sporting Clays shot. Even shot pumps some.... Model 12's. That's another story though! I told him about the '97 Pigeon Gun one day in 1997. He loved fine guns, checkering, engraving, fine wood..... Things that didn't mean as much to me. He bugged me until I dug it out and took it over for him to see. I had planted the seed for him to own '97's! He loved Winchesters and he really loved this one. I think so and so (he said the name) engraved this! This is from the Winchester factory I'm sure! "You got a letter?" "From who?" I said.... "From Cody!" I sent for the letter and got it back after a wait..... I read through it, I read through it again! My detective mind was activated! All the fancy stuff was documented including the funny stock dimensions. Mechanical stuff was more general. Under barrel it only said '28" Cylinder'. Another very uncommon barrel for 1899! I thought they just wrote the choke wrong as the barrel said "Full" I was sure.
It came up that the gun was going to be 100 years old the next year... "You need to shoot it next year for it's birthday!" My buddy says. "Naw...... It's never had a plastic shell through it." "How do you know?" "Well I got it in 1961.... The bore had been dirty for what looked like years and I had to bronze brush out lead streaks.." "Yeah.... I remember that before plastic wads or even Mark 5" (plastic shot wraps) Pete, you got a bunch of Federal paper hulls and let's shoot it! You can keep it a virgin that way!"
!998 came and I hadn't done anything... I got chewed out.... So I loaded some paper 12ga with 8's. I shot at the pattern plate at 30 yards. Nice pattern 33" in diameter. "Clean barrel" I mumbled. Another shot was 32 1/2". I took the barrel off. I got a telescoping gauge in behind the choke. I miked the gauge .730".... I miked the choke .720"!!!!! IT HAD BEEN OPENED TO IMPROVED CYLINDER!!!! Now my detective mind was really activated! What's with this barrel thing? Something told me to pull the magazine tube off. I knew an 1899 barrel wouldn't have a date on it... But this one did! I read "30".... This barrel was made in 1930!!
So my Montana buddy and I figured out roughly what happened although we have circumstantial evidence in this. The original owner that ordered and bought this gun wanted it special! I now believe him a hunter. He had put every option or extra you could get from Winchester when it was ordered as per Cody. When I got it in 1961 it was missing one of them! Know what that extra was??? A Damascus barrel! That 28" Cylinder was a Damascus barrel! Early in the 1900's there were some Damascus barrel ruptures and every manufacturer dropped them. Shell boxes were marked "Do not use in Damascus barrels." My gut tells me the owner locked his pride and joy in the dark... Even though Winchester would change the barrel... HE WOULDN'T! Say the owner died about 1930 and a son gets the gun. He knows the barrel is dangerous. He has Winchester replace it (I know Winchester put the 1930 barrel on) He had a kid or wife interested in shooting. He shortened the stock to 13"
! The shooting evidently was short lived and the ol' gun was locked in the dark again for another generation! Then I got it. Do you have any idea what that old gal would be worth if the original Damascus was still on it as it left the factory???? They are rare in this condition alone from 1899 and there may not be any with Damascus that still exist!Pete
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fiver
Well-Known Member
the improved cylinder would be for skeet shooting.
or for hunting grouse type stuff. [or for a lucky kid to be shooting ducks over decoy's with # 6 magnum shot]
the old cardboard wads would throw a slightly larger than choke pattern diameter.
[strange bit of trivia #6 shot has always been available with a higher antimony content {usually @5%} than the other hunting shot sizes]
I have never seen a pigeon grade 97 in person.
model 12's and 101's for sure and have even seen them in diamond grade [I have a pigeon grade 101 with a black diamond stock set on it, set up for live bird shooting] but not a 97.
or for hunting grouse type stuff. [or for a lucky kid to be shooting ducks over decoy's with # 6 magnum shot]
the old cardboard wads would throw a slightly larger than choke pattern diameter.
[strange bit of trivia #6 shot has always been available with a higher antimony content {usually @5%} than the other hunting shot sizes]
I have never seen a pigeon grade 97 in person.
model 12's and 101's for sure and have even seen them in diamond grade [I have a pigeon grade 101 with a black diamond stock set on it, set up for live bird shooting] but not a 97.
quicksylver
Well-Known Member
That's a National treasure for sure...I have seen one very similar to that it was in about the same condition...WAS
Some 18 yrs ago or so an 18-20yr old showed up at the Trap range with it..a Black Diamond Trap 97, it had been his grandfather's..and was passed along to him..we all did the same drooling and congratulated him about how lucky he was to have his grandfather leave him such a fine gun ..we also told him what we thought the value was etc....he of course thought it was just an old gun when he bought it to the range..
Three or so weeks went by before we saw him again with his 97...apparently in that time he had taken it to gunsmith to have it "fixed" since we all said it was "worth a lot"....yup the smith stripped it down, polished the heck out of it, reblued it and completely sanded down and refinished the stock...
We never did see the young man again or the gun...
Ever since that episode I have always make sure that someone new to guns understands that a lot if not all of the value in the old pieces is their originality...
It was beautifull piece as yours still is..and again IMO a National treasure ..
PS..make sure to hang a tag on it that reads "DON'T NOT REFINISH"
Some 18 yrs ago or so an 18-20yr old showed up at the Trap range with it..a Black Diamond Trap 97, it had been his grandfather's..and was passed along to him..we all did the same drooling and congratulated him about how lucky he was to have his grandfather leave him such a fine gun ..we also told him what we thought the value was etc....he of course thought it was just an old gun when he bought it to the range..
Three or so weeks went by before we saw him again with his 97...apparently in that time he had taken it to gunsmith to have it "fixed" since we all said it was "worth a lot"....yup the smith stripped it down, polished the heck out of it, reblued it and completely sanded down and refinished the stock...
We never did see the young man again or the gun...
Ever since that episode I have always make sure that someone new to guns understands that a lot if not all of the value in the old pieces is their originality...
It was beautifull piece as yours still is..and again IMO a National treasure ..
PS..make sure to hang a tag on it that reads "DON'T NOT REFINISH"
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Beautiful gun. Neat history, too.
My '97 is a bastardized shortened riot gun, but in nice shooting shape, not worn or rusted out. I picked it up for $200 a
couple of years ago, just for historical reasons, more than anything. Not much of a shotgunner, really. I keep trying to aim.
Bill
My '97 is a bastardized shortened riot gun, but in nice shooting shape, not worn or rusted out. I picked it up for $200 a
couple of years ago, just for historical reasons, more than anything. Not much of a shotgunner, really. I keep trying to aim.
Bill