is the 9mm gonna be the death of the 40 short?
- Thread starter fiver
- Start date
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
fiver
Well-Known Member
got a chuckle out of that.
bullet construction is a huge mystery to a lot of people.
making my own jacketed bullets and giving them a go on stuff has answered a lot of questions I couldn't get answered before.
I really become a big fan of Hornady bullets because they actually give a very good description of their construction and expected performance on target and they also give you a velocity window they are expected to work in. [I even figured out to duplicate their interlock ring with some help from a pretty smart machinist type guy]
putting all of those factors together in a bullet you made from little pieces of this and that gives you a little better insight to how small changes can make a big difference.
it also let's you see through marketing BS and read between the lines on 'new and improved' products.
bullet construction is a huge mystery to a lot of people.
making my own jacketed bullets and giving them a go on stuff has answered a lot of questions I couldn't get answered before.
I really become a big fan of Hornady bullets because they actually give a very good description of their construction and expected performance on target and they also give you a velocity window they are expected to work in. [I even figured out to duplicate their interlock ring with some help from a pretty smart machinist type guy]
putting all of those factors together in a bullet you made from little pieces of this and that gives you a little better insight to how small changes can make a big difference.
it also let's you see through marketing BS and read between the lines on 'new and improved' products.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I'm way late to this .........
I like my 40 ......
I have 2 45ACP , 2 9mm , 2 380 , 1 45 Colts , 1 45 Schofield , a 38/200 , a 38 and a 357 to go with it in autos , singles and doubles .
I've done mountains of looking at apex bullet weights the 38/200/short/Colts NP/etc is dead last . In the numbers world 38/9mm are a dead heat and the 38 carries the day above 140 gr . Below 140 the extra 18,000 psi helps the 9mm a lot .
You can only do so much with an ACP but like it's counterparts in 35 cal it gains to near Colts with the extra 4-8,000 psi allowed and it keeps that edge up to 260 gr . This would make the 45 Quartet also a dead heat at standard loadings .
Load a 38-40 to 18kpsi like the SAA loads instead of the hot loaded 1910 Winchester rifle loads and the difference between it and the 40 up to 170 gr is a pretty small gap . My 175s only mosey along at 940 fps out of a 2" barrel .
Where this goes out the window is when you step out of the nominal loads . Heavy bullets in the old long low pressure cases will put a whooping on the ACP class cartridges all day long . The whooping gets even more pronounced when you put the short cases in a revolver and the biggun's in a closed breach .
The ACPs however gain back for size and capacity . Most 9 mm Revolvers are only 5 shots while even the LCP or Glock 42 are 6 with an 8 shot extended mag for the Glock . The 1911 carries 6-8 and there's an XD that carries 14 rounds of 45ACP while revolvers are 5-6 and even those 45 revolvers have way bulkier clips .
9 vs 38/357 isn't even a fair contest . The tiny compact LC 9 carries 6 and is hardly bigger than the average man's wallet and standard sizes start at 14 rounds .
This brings us back to the 40 .
It's an awkward in between cartridge born as a mag neutured to a Special .
It does fit most of the auto frames . It carries more rounds than the 45 in the same frames but gives up a couple to the 9mm .
Side by side with the 9mm I'll take a 165 gr bullet for bullet over the 125s at 1100 fps all day long . I don't know what the 185s do in the ACP but 250s will go 900 in my Revolvers so there's no contest there , but 12 rounds in a High Power of 170-180 gr @ 950 fps is nothing to sneeze at .
The platforms built around the 40 just like those built around 45 ACP and 9mm deliver first shots in small clusters and double taps within 8-12" @ 25yd with the slide return pulling the muzzle back to POA .
If a bullet misses vitals , fails to open , fails to penetrate or over expands all you have is shock .
If all you have is shock ftlbs matter as much or more than how they are delivered .
Speed might be the answer but if all that speed is only delivering the same ftlb it doesn't matter .
I like my 40 ......
I have 2 45ACP , 2 9mm , 2 380 , 1 45 Colts , 1 45 Schofield , a 38/200 , a 38 and a 357 to go with it in autos , singles and doubles .
I've done mountains of looking at apex bullet weights the 38/200/short/Colts NP/etc is dead last . In the numbers world 38/9mm are a dead heat and the 38 carries the day above 140 gr . Below 140 the extra 18,000 psi helps the 9mm a lot .
You can only do so much with an ACP but like it's counterparts in 35 cal it gains to near Colts with the extra 4-8,000 psi allowed and it keeps that edge up to 260 gr . This would make the 45 Quartet also a dead heat at standard loadings .
Load a 38-40 to 18kpsi like the SAA loads instead of the hot loaded 1910 Winchester rifle loads and the difference between it and the 40 up to 170 gr is a pretty small gap . My 175s only mosey along at 940 fps out of a 2" barrel .
Where this goes out the window is when you step out of the nominal loads . Heavy bullets in the old long low pressure cases will put a whooping on the ACP class cartridges all day long . The whooping gets even more pronounced when you put the short cases in a revolver and the biggun's in a closed breach .
The ACPs however gain back for size and capacity . Most 9 mm Revolvers are only 5 shots while even the LCP or Glock 42 are 6 with an 8 shot extended mag for the Glock . The 1911 carries 6-8 and there's an XD that carries 14 rounds of 45ACP while revolvers are 5-6 and even those 45 revolvers have way bulkier clips .
9 vs 38/357 isn't even a fair contest . The tiny compact LC 9 carries 6 and is hardly bigger than the average man's wallet and standard sizes start at 14 rounds .
This brings us back to the 40 .
It's an awkward in between cartridge born as a mag neutured to a Special .
It does fit most of the auto frames . It carries more rounds than the 45 in the same frames but gives up a couple to the 9mm .
Side by side with the 9mm I'll take a 165 gr bullet for bullet over the 125s at 1100 fps all day long . I don't know what the 185s do in the ACP but 250s will go 900 in my Revolvers so there's no contest there , but 12 rounds in a High Power of 170-180 gr @ 950 fps is nothing to sneeze at .
The platforms built around the 40 just like those built around 45 ACP and 9mm deliver first shots in small clusters and double taps within 8-12" @ 25yd with the slide return pulling the muzzle back to POA .
If a bullet misses vitals , fails to open , fails to penetrate or over expands all you have is shock .
If all you have is shock ftlbs matter as much or more than how they are delivered .
Speed might be the answer but if all that speed is only delivering the same ftlb it doesn't matter .
Catshooter
Member
I tend to be a .45 guy. Well, who am I kiddin', I'm a huge .45 guy. I can also see a use for both the 9 & the .40.
I noticed during the Obama years often when looking at the bare ammo shelves (at the gun shop: mine were fine) the only pistol round was the .40.
So even though I'm my own ammo factory I am set to be able to shoot all three. Just 'cause.
Cat
I noticed during the Obama years often when looking at the bare ammo shelves (at the gun shop: mine were fine) the only pistol round was the .40.
So even though I'm my own ammo factory I am set to be able to shoot all three. Just 'cause.
Cat
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I must correct something I wrote earlier. It seems the NYSP is switching calibers again, not sure why. They're going from the current 45GAP to the 45ACP. I know we got the 45GAP nearly free and it's worked good. Why they're switching I don't know. Maybe they aren't getting ammo makers to produce what they want? Anyway, the Troopers can buy their own guns when they are retired. I'm surprised they can do this as the practice was discontinued some years back.
USSR
Finger Lakes Region of NY
Agree with you, fiver. Same reason the armed forces went with the new Sig using either small, medium, or large grips.
Don
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
It wasn't just the girls. I was a veritable giant compared to some of the baby troops that came on and I'm not quite 5'10"...
Bruce Drake
Active Member
Whoa...Did we HotTub Timewarp back to the 1980s with this thread's subject line? Will the 40 be the death of the 9mm???
RBHarter
West Central AR
Oh no not another 100+ yr old war horse standing it ground and holding it's lead against new kids ????? It almost like it's as embedded as that silly under powered cal 30 model of 1906 or 45 ACP ......... How can anyone be so blind ? Don't you know that even paper is so tough now it takes special high velocity magnum jacketed controlled expansion bonded bullets from high pressure case deforming cartridges only suitable for use in super duper strong steel reenforced carbon fiber enhanced polimetric guns ? (Sarcasm)
