Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Some would also say, "stop nickel and diming yourself to death with a half a dozen devices and just purchase a progressive press"!
Lee has a new press.
- Thread starter Kevin Stenberg
- Start date
fiver
Well-Known Member
but even those need some help.
i can run 223's through my 550 or 650 like crazy but then i gotta get the lube off loaded ammo.
i could run it through my tumbler, or rock spinner with dry media.
or i could put the cases through a prep process and then run them through the progressive, and go shoot them immediately afterwards.
i have like 3 different cleaning and loading processes now,,, if you don't count just neck sizing and loading satin finished just fired stuff.
i have just as many loading processes too.
sometimes i hand weigh each load, sometimes i just push the button, and sometimes i dump straight from the RCBS/Hornady/Pacific/Lee dump straight into the case, and very,very occasionally i use a LEE scoop or cut off case to load the hulls.
i can run 223's through my 550 or 650 like crazy but then i gotta get the lube off loaded ammo.
i could run it through my tumbler, or rock spinner with dry media.
or i could put the cases through a prep process and then run them through the progressive, and go shoot them immediately afterwards.
i have like 3 different cleaning and loading processes now,,, if you don't count just neck sizing and loading satin finished just fired stuff.
i have just as many loading processes too.
sometimes i hand weigh each load, sometimes i just push the button, and sometimes i dump straight from the RCBS/Hornady/Pacific/Lee dump straight into the case, and very,very occasionally i use a LEE scoop or cut off case to load the hulls.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
To each his own.
For the most part, I use a progressive press to produce larger quantities of handgun ammo and a single stage press for smaller quantities of handgun ammo and rifle cartridges. Your methods may be different.
The APP performs one function quickly but after that, it is essentially a single stage press. I fail to see how it improves your production rate much. After resizing casings, you either must move over to a single stage press to complete the process or re-configure the APP and complete the process. Those are certainly options, but I don’t see then as efficient options. If your goal is to achieve high counts of finished ammo in short periods of time, just buy a true progressive press. If you’re looking for a good single stage press (something every reloader should have IMO) there are simpler options (and probably far more durable options) than the APP. If you’re looking for something between a full progressive and a simple single stage, that’s where turret presses shine.
For the most part, I use a progressive press to produce larger quantities of handgun ammo and a single stage press for smaller quantities of handgun ammo and rifle cartridges. Your methods may be different.
The APP performs one function quickly but after that, it is essentially a single stage press. I fail to see how it improves your production rate much. After resizing casings, you either must move over to a single stage press to complete the process or re-configure the APP and complete the process. Those are certainly options, but I don’t see then as efficient options. If your goal is to achieve high counts of finished ammo in short periods of time, just buy a true progressive press. If you’re looking for a good single stage press (something every reloader should have IMO) there are simpler options (and probably far more durable options) than the APP. If you’re looking for something between a full progressive and a simple single stage, that’s where turret presses shine.
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Well I’ve have the LEE Classic Cast turret, then two Redding Big Boss 2 presses, then some clear space for bench mounted RCBS primer tool and Forester trimmer. Pretty much sucks up the space on that bench. Adding a new tool that does a job or two that the other tools are all ready doing…. The other bench is strictly casting, so no loading tools over there.
I’m not a volume/quantity loader, so a turret is as fast as I need to go. Yes I have to pull the handle 4 times for a cartridge, but, my turret heads are $10 each, my shell holders I have in every brand and cartridge, so don’t need to buy expensive new shell holder’s either. I know, I know, I don’t need shell holders for the APP or the other new one but, that new press as it doesn’t bring free bench space to the game, I have no use for it.
I have enough difficulty restraining myself when it comes to gun/reloading equipment, so I admit I’m an addicted, that’s the first step right?
I’m not a volume/quantity loader, so a turret is as fast as I need to go. Yes I have to pull the handle 4 times for a cartridge, but, my turret heads are $10 each, my shell holders I have in every brand and cartridge, so don’t need to buy expensive new shell holder’s either. I know, I know, I don’t need shell holders for the APP or the other new one but, that new press as it doesn’t bring free bench space to the game, I have no use for it.
I have enough difficulty restraining myself when it comes to gun/reloading equipment, so I admit I’m an addicted, that’s the first step right?
Dimner
Named Man
I have 3 devices.
hporter
Active Member
Interesting conversation.
My Lee APP sits next to two Dillon 650's and a Dillon 550. I always pop the primers before wet tumbling. And powder coating is starting to supplant the use of my Star lubri-sizer (which sent my RCBS LAM-II down the road). The workflow is probably slightly different for every reloader on this website.
Bottom line for me is - I can size a whole bunch of powder coated, or Ben's Liquid Lubed bullets in that APP press without getting tired. And with the NOE bushing adapter for the Lee APP bullet sizing die, all my NOE sizing bushings are compatible. Fill the tube, pull the handle, fill the tube, pull the handle. Much less tiring than feeding my Star Sizer one at a time.
And the added benefit of the APP as a depriming tool before wet tumbling, my Dillon 650's don't puke empty primer cups and anvils all over my floor anymore.
My Lee APP sits next to two Dillon 650's and a Dillon 550. I always pop the primers before wet tumbling. And powder coating is starting to supplant the use of my Star lubri-sizer (which sent my RCBS LAM-II down the road). The workflow is probably slightly different for every reloader on this website.
Bottom line for me is - I can size a whole bunch of powder coated, or Ben's Liquid Lubed bullets in that APP press without getting tired. And with the NOE bushing adapter for the Lee APP bullet sizing die, all my NOE sizing bushings are compatible. Fill the tube, pull the handle, fill the tube, pull the handle. Much less tiring than feeding my Star Sizer one at a time.
And the added benefit of the APP as a depriming tool before wet tumbling, my Dillon 650's don't puke empty primer cups and anvils all over my floor anymore.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I don't care to spend $120 to gain the privilege of pulling an operating handle twice for each cartridge loaded (once in the APP and once again in the progressive press). Nor do I care to handle every casing twice during the loading sequence (once to place the casings into the APP and a second time to place the same casing into a progressive press. I don't wish to reconfigure two presses every time I change calibers/cartridges.
And the loss of real estate on the bench top is also a consideration.
YMMV
And the loss of real estate on the bench top is also a consideration.
YMMV
hporter
Active Member
P&P,
I wouldn't disagree with anyone who doesn't want to de-prime their brass before cleaning it. Nor would I argue against your objections to handling the brass twice. Both valid opinions. But if your preferred workflow includes those things, the APP is very useful.
And for bench space, if you were going to waste $100 (theoretically), it would be best spent on an Inline Fabrication Ultra Mount with quick change plates.
I can pop the APP off in 30 seconds and replace it with a number of other tools I have the quick change plates mounted to. Takes care of the limited bench space in useful and practical way.
I wouldn't disagree with anyone who doesn't want to de-prime their brass before cleaning it. Nor would I argue against your objections to handling the brass twice. Both valid opinions. But if your preferred workflow includes those things, the APP is very useful.
And for bench space, if you were going to waste $100 (theoretically), it would be best spent on an Inline Fabrication Ultra Mount with quick change plates.
I can pop the APP off in 30 seconds and replace it with a number of other tools I have the quick change plates mounted to. Takes care of the limited bench space in useful and practical way.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
While I may de-prime 50-100 rifle casings before I tumble them in order to clean primer pockets. And I do square primer pockets on rifle casings during the first reloading cycle. My rifle cartridge reloading in done on a single stage.
However, I'm not going to de-prime 400-500 handgun casings before tossing them in the tumbler. They go into the tumbler and when done, they go directly into the progressive press. I don't bother to de-prime clean casings before they go into the progressive press, that's what the first station on the progressive press is for. Therefore, there is no need to process those casings through a separate sizing/decapping machine (adding an additional 400-500 manipulations of another operating handle) before placing them into a press that is designed to perform that function as just part of the reloading cycle.
I understand some folks may wish to start with de-primed cases and that's fine, it's just not for me.
However, I'm not going to de-prime 400-500 handgun casings before tossing them in the tumbler. They go into the tumbler and when done, they go directly into the progressive press. I don't bother to de-prime clean casings before they go into the progressive press, that's what the first station on the progressive press is for. Therefore, there is no need to process those casings through a separate sizing/decapping machine (adding an additional 400-500 manipulations of another operating handle) before placing them into a press that is designed to perform that function as just part of the reloading cycle.
I understand some folks may wish to start with de-primed cases and that's fine, it's just not for me.
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RBHarter
West Central AR
I have several times during the winter doldrums prepped a bunch of brass when I wasn't loading but had a bunch of it to load . The 4 Lee was nice with 2 each 45 ACP sizers and expanders . I did about 1200 cases , 2 strokes , swap cases , repeat ........still didn't warm up to them . No doubt it was a time saver producing prime , charge , seat , repeat prepped ammo but it just didn't whatever it is for me . It's like binge casting with 4-6 cavity moulds in 30+ cal for a several 2 pot sessions then pouring 22-28 cal in singles ..... You stand there going through the motions for 2 hours you still have a half pot of hot lead and only 200 bullets in the bucket . It's therapeutic sure but a guy can only take it so long . The Lee presses feel kind of the same way .
Lee tools
Tool for a job that does the job . In so many things it's not just about the tool doing the job and completing it in a quality way , it's about how the tool works , feels , and lasts .
For me I think it's the lack of the cam over stop .
Maybe none of this applies to the APP and ilk .
Lee tools
Tool for a job that does the job . In so many things it's not just about the tool doing the job and completing it in a quality way , it's about how the tool works , feels , and lasts .
For me I think it's the lack of the cam over stop .
Maybe none of this applies to the APP and ilk .
hporter
Active Member
Very well said. I suppose everyone one this site makes decisions based on this criteria, for more than just reloading.
Do I buy a Harbor Freight socket set, or a Snap-on. Do I buy a Chinese drill press - or an American.
I started reloading with Lee Wack-A-Moles, moved to their single stage presses, to their revolving turrets and then to their progressives.
Bought a Dillon 550, and sent the Lee progressives down the road. Your words, "it's about how the tool works , feels , and lasts" would be the best explanation of why. The Lee presses can work well, but I felt I was always having to fiddle with them, especially with the primer feeds.
The Lee APP is no different. I find myself fiddling with it too. But I "knew" that would be the case going into the purchase. I guess that is why your comment struck me - it gets to the heart of the matter.
Every tool is built to a price point. And sometimes it is predictable what the satisfaction level will be, based on that price point.
But having said that, 90% of my reloading dies are Lee brand. I still have the Lee Classic Cast Single Stage, the Lee Classic Turret, the little Lee C press (which gets used a lot) and the Lee Hand Press. I exclusively use the Lee Pro-Auto Disc measures on all my Dillon progressives. I have 4 Dillon powder measures sitting in the closet collecting dust. I prefer the cheap plastic Lee powder measure system.
The first part of your post reminded me why I was so happy with my APP purchase. After binge casting handgun bullets, it is truly amazing how fast you can size them in the APP.
If all I ever used the APP for was sizing my powder coated or BLL lubed bullets, it was well worth the purchase price to me.
Ian
Notorious member
A person who makes their living with their hands quickly comes to appreciate good quality tools.
A person who buys their own tools that makes their living also quickly learns that they don't always need the BEST tool, but do always need the CORRECT tool. By the same token, sometimes you have to buy the very best there is and still break it or wear it out with regularity on tough jobs. Having to spend money on a LOT of CORRECT tools drives one to economize as much as possible, and deal with the trade-off of how it feels or how fast it enables you do the job.
What's this ineffable thing called? Tactility? I don't know, but there's a word for it.
A person who buys their own tools that makes their living also quickly learns that they don't always need the BEST tool, but do always need the CORRECT tool. By the same token, sometimes you have to buy the very best there is and still break it or wear it out with regularity on tough jobs. Having to spend money on a LOT of CORRECT tools drives one to economize as much as possible, and deal with the trade-off of how it feels or how fast it enables you do the job.
What's this ineffable thing called? Tactility? I don't know, but there's a word for it.
Ian
Notorious member
My phone locked up before I could complete the thought.
Cheap tools. Good, cheap, or fast, pick any two. Occasionally there are exceptions. The Lee case collator and progressive feeding mechanisms are examples, so is the Pro Autodisk measure and the old hand priming tool. It baffles me how the same company that can produce a decent, serviceable bullet mould for under $60 including a pair of really nice handles can turn around and make something like the auto-drum measure or Pro-4000 progressive which are so horrible that even a certified Master Tinker like me with a full machine shop cannot make them even function. I have six Pro-1000s and three Classic Turret (big ram) presses set up and running all the time so I don't have to mess with anything to run production ammo. Nearly two dozen loaded turrets ready to go, and turrets full of bullet sizers also ready to go without adjustment. I think Lee turrets and Pro-1000s are good systems, quite affordable, and they WORK. I use one Pro-1000 just for decapping brass in huge batches because the collator and feeder is so good. Only problem is the base fills up with primers and I don't want to drill a big hole through my bench for a catch bottle.
If the APP had a bullet collator, I might own one.
Cheap tools. Good, cheap, or fast, pick any two. Occasionally there are exceptions. The Lee case collator and progressive feeding mechanisms are examples, so is the Pro Autodisk measure and the old hand priming tool. It baffles me how the same company that can produce a decent, serviceable bullet mould for under $60 including a pair of really nice handles can turn around and make something like the auto-drum measure or Pro-4000 progressive which are so horrible that even a certified Master Tinker like me with a full machine shop cannot make them even function. I have six Pro-1000s and three Classic Turret (big ram) presses set up and running all the time so I don't have to mess with anything to run production ammo. Nearly two dozen loaded turrets ready to go, and turrets full of bullet sizers also ready to go without adjustment. I think Lee turrets and Pro-1000s are good systems, quite affordable, and they WORK. I use one Pro-1000 just for decapping brass in huge batches because the collator and feeder is so good. Only problem is the base fills up with primers and I don't want to drill a big hole through my bench for a catch bottle.
If the APP had a bullet collator, I might own one.
hporter
Active Member
Ian, the APP can use the same bullet collator as the progressive presses.
I have one around here somewhere for the Lee progressives that I used to have, so I haven't bought it. I will most likely just adapt my Dillon case feeder to the APP, since I already have all the plates for it.
That is a brilliant idea filling the turret tool heads with sizer dies.
I found a Lee 4 hole turret head in my parts stash yesterday. If you need another, PM me your address and I will send it your way. Sounds like you put them to good use.
I have one around here somewhere for the Lee progressives that I used to have, so I haven't bought it. I will most likely just adapt my Dillon case feeder to the APP, since I already have all the plates for it.
That is a brilliant idea filling the turret tool heads with sizer dies.
I found a Lee 4 hole turret head in my parts stash yesterday. If you need another, PM me your address and I will send it your way. Sounds like you put them to good use.
Ian
Notorious member
I have an extra 4-hole turret press, Pro-1000, and a few extra rams and various 3 and 4 hole top plates in a box, but thanks!
My favorite thing to do with Lee presses is treat them like Legos. I built a Pro-1000 on a Classic Cast frame after machining a new ram head and three spacer bushings to extend the columns 5/8" or whatever it was:
I also made a longer hex indexing rod for another Classic Turret so I could convert it to three hole.
The Pro-4000 is such a piece of garbage that I couldn't save it even with about three days of machine shop work work and replacing half the parts with Pro-1000 and turret parts.
My favorite thing to do with Lee presses is treat them like Legos. I built a Pro-1000 on a Classic Cast frame after machining a new ram head and three spacer bushings to extend the columns 5/8" or whatever it was:
I also made a longer hex indexing rod for another Classic Turret so I could convert it to three hole.
The Pro-4000 is such a piece of garbage that I couldn't save it even with about three days of machine shop work work and replacing half the parts with Pro-1000 and turret parts.
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hporter
Active Member
That is great work. I loved using my Lee Classic Turret, they are very good machines. I loaned it to a friend a decade ago who wanted to learn to reload. It is still in his garage and I don't think he has even tried to use it. What a pity.
I've always been interested in the art and craft of machine work. I had an Erma La 22 luger like pistol that the toggle blew apart when I was a teenager from shooting high velocity ammo through it. My best friends father was a machinist for the local paper mill and he had a mill and lathe at his house. So he built me a new one. Almost half a century later, I still marvel at having that capability in your own home.
I also wanted to add that if you did procure an APP, unfortunately you would have to change your sizing dies as the APP won't work with the tube feeder with the old LEE sizing dies that came in the round plastic boxes. That was not an issue for me, as I had already changed to the NOE style die with the bushing inserts. But I do still have a plastic tote full of the old style Lee sizing dies that I need to figure out what to do with.
I've always been interested in the art and craft of machine work. I had an Erma La 22 luger like pistol that the toggle blew apart when I was a teenager from shooting high velocity ammo through it. My best friends father was a machinist for the local paper mill and he had a mill and lathe at his house. So he built me a new one. Almost half a century later, I still marvel at having that capability in your own home.
I also wanted to add that if you did procure an APP, unfortunately you would have to change your sizing dies as the APP won't work with the tube feeder with the old LEE sizing dies that came in the round plastic boxes. That was not an issue for me, as I had already changed to the NOE style die with the bushing inserts. But I do still have a plastic tote full of the old style Lee sizing dies that I need to figure out what to do with.
RBHarter
West Central AR
Like many I have many tools from many makers from about 1935 to 2017 I think . Almost every Lee die set was purchased for 3 reasons . Often it was the only one available , 380 circa 2006 the. I needed a tool for a job and in a time of plenty it was what was available and I didn't feel like I really needed premium tool , 460 S&W and 45 S&W , you're only going to get so much out of them and it's pretty hard to run amuck with a straight wall case , I really only needed the seater anyway . Last was for modification , a 7×6.8 SPC for example .
In the first case I waited patiently for the opportunity to replace them with other dies . It took 4 years for a set of 358 Win , but the 6.8 SPC for a 6.8 SPCII came with the barrel or about the same time . The 380 was a wreck right from the start and a set of steel dies fixed the radial crack in the carbide sizer .
Some of them have stayed on , others have been replaced . I won't buy another set for anything I might have to form a shoulder on . Never say never .
In the first case I waited patiently for the opportunity to replace them with other dies . It took 4 years for a set of 358 Win , but the 6.8 SPC for a 6.8 SPCII came with the barrel or about the same time . The 380 was a wreck right from the start and a set of steel dies fixed the radial crack in the carbide sizer .
Some of them have stayed on , others have been replaced . I won't buy another set for anything I might have to form a shoulder on . Never say never .