Long Term Storage on Bullets

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Our local Scheels sells bulk packed Hornady 55 gr FMJ or soft point bullets for about $50.00 for a box of 500. If you want to store ammo, store it sealed in ammo cans like Bill suggested. Throw in a few oxygen absorbers before sealing it up, and don't open the cans again until you're ready to use them. If you do open them for any reason, add new O2 absorbers.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
yep oxygen is a problem.
so is moisture.

if I wanted to think long term then a coating on unsized bullets stored in a water proof can would be just about ideal.
when you needed them a quick trip through a size lube machine would have them fresh and ready to go.

vacuum sealing loaded ammo would actually work quite well especially if laid in an ammo can and stored away in a cool dry place.
coating the bullets with Hi-tek and the cases with nu-finish would add another layer of protection.

or you could do what I'm doing and just load 10K rounds and throw them all in a fiber drum.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I have tried vacuum sealing ammo off and on, over the years with mixed results. The bargain bags for the Food Saver have almost always leaked for me. The factory bags work better, but are not infallible. My standard procedure is to toss in a couple of smaller O2 absorbers before vacuum sealing. The sealed ammo then goes into military (not plastic) ammo cans. Within a year, the cheaper bags will have air in them, even though there are no obvious leaks. I have tried the same setup without O2 absorbers with the same results. My conclusion is that the cheaper bags are simply much more likely to leak. I have had the Food Saver brand bags leak, but it was nowhere near as common an occurrence. I have noticed that the cheaper bags often have wrinkles in them, as do bags at the end of a Food Saver roll. I think that wrinkled bags may not heat seal properly, even though they initially take a vacuum really well. Loose ammo needs to be placed in some sort of inner container before vacuum sealing. Even so, loose ammo, vacuum sealed in any bag has always leaked for me. Especially 223. BTW, a piece of VCI paper in the bag before sealing has proven to be a nice touch.
 

Hawk

North Central Texas
When ya'll are talking O2 absorbers are you referring to desiccant or something else that I am not familiar with?
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
No, O2 absorbers are different. Dessiccant is typically silica gel, available in little packets or in bulk
from craft stores - for drying flowers. O2 absorbers are typically used for packaging food.
Another way is to drop a chunk of dry ice into a container you want to remove oxygen from. Close lid
but do NOT seal, wait until the dry ice is gone, and seal lid. The container will be filled with carbon
dioxide, which is heavier than air, so will sit in a container if not disturbed and "blown" out.

Bill
 

Ian

Notorious member
You can also inert-gas purge a container with a can of that air-duster stuff for keyboards. It's CO2 and has a little plastic straw to pinpoint the blast. You can put a piece of small rubber tubing like vacuum tubing or even insulation pulled off of house wire and fish it in under the lid of a jar or can. Close the lid as much as possible without pinching the tube, spray the container full of the inert gas, and quickly retract the tube and seal it up. Not perfect but better than the 20% oxygen in air. The nice thing about the oxygen absorber packets is they soak up all available oxygen and if you use a big enough one, have some reserve to deal with small leaks over time or with the oxygen that is semi-trapped in the nooks and crannies of the stuff you put inside the container. The pressure differentials created by normal atmospheric pressure changes are enough to pump a significant amount of fresh air into a container with a tiny leak over time.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
just so you have something to work with if you try the co-2 thing.
the liquid expands into a gas at about a 300 to 1 ratio.
dry ice is of course a solid and porous but a 150 to 1 ratio would be a pretty good number to go by.
 
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Hawk

North Central Texas
I've attached a photo of a boolit (9MM), PC'ed with Smokes Black colored powder, after being covered by Longshot powder for 2 weeks.
The grains of powder are stuck to the boolit and will not shake off.
Apparently, there is some sort of chemical reaction taking place as the powder reacts and sticks to the PC.

Unique, Red Dot, Blue Dot and A1680 have no powder grains that are sticking to the boolit and no visible signs on the PC of a reaction (no discoloration, stains or blemishes that I can discern).
As stated else where, the Unique, RD and BD are older runs of powder, probably from the 80s and 90s. They're what I have and current lots may react differently.

The Unique has been exposed to the PC for about 6 months and the others for about 2 weeks.

This is very unscientific and I don't know how this would effect burn rates, but seems to indicate Longshot may not be a viable powder for PC'ed boolits over the long haul.

I've got a lot of powders, but these are the only powders that I may use with PC'ed boolits, so they're the ones I'm testing.

This throws a monkey wrench in my plans. I was going to start loading Longshot in my 10MM and .40 S&W with plain base, PC'ed boolits. Guess I'll have to go with Unique or Blue Dot or just size and lube with LBT.

It's a shame. A black PC'ed bullet just looks badass to me.
 

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358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
You could try a thin wad between the powder & bullet in a straight case, or use a gascheck design.
 

Hawk

North Central Texas
I've been thinking about a plain base aluminum GC. Maybe have to buy a maker from Pat Marlin and recycle some beer cans.
I checked Josh's page. Looks like he doesn't sell anything like that.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Just dip the bases in BLL and let them dry. I really don't think powder sticking to the coating is going to hurt much, even if those grains of powder get contaminated somehow. What does concern me is if the coating gets eaten away completely from the base of a bullet inside a small case where the low volume may react poorly to any change in the deterrent coating of the powder.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
Does the powder wipe off with yer finger? Could be static charge holding it on there. I dunno, most plastics are prone to holding it. If that coating were pulling enough chemical out of the powder to change the burn rate you'd think the nitro charged bullet coating would explode when it went off or got hit by a hammer.

Dust them with motor mica..err..boron nitride..?

I'm simple, high volume tl'd handgun loads go in a gallon zip lock in an ammo can, done deal. No problems. If I had to put more thought in it I'd buy some plated bullets for lts.
 

Eutectic

Active Member
Some of the newer ball powders also have a new deterrent/coating that seems sticky. Lil'Gun is the worse; but Longshot may also have it. It does some things well. Lil'Gun has a kernel shape like 571 (HS-7) yet they slow it with these new coatings. It will make a Hornet shine too.... But it is some 'squirrely' stuff if you don't keep the time pressure curve a little on the retarded side!

Both Lil'Gun and Longshot will lead with plain base bullets where equivalent performance loads using other powders won't.... So there's some kind of early heat thing going on....

I've pulled down jacketed loads with Lil'Gun and had powder on the bases. When you remove it the gilding metal is stained! I've see no long term (few years) change in performance.

The nitrates in our powders (NO3) are oxygen rich just waiting to get lose. Look at plastics.... I've seen plastic shotshell wads turned orange from being loaded for years. I've got buddies with orange colored powder measures from leaving powder in... I don't...

So NOTHING in the powder's chamber but brass and the bullet's base (for metallic) plastic in shotshells! Nothing on the bullet's base either (gascheck OK)... Both lead and copper have a good record of staying inert (except for the above newer examples)

I would actually trust a lead lubricated bullet correctly loaded over jacketed for an inert seal! That's lead lubricated now..... 50 years no problem for me.... I wouldn't trust 'tumble lube' long storage either. A few years maybe....

Pete
 
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Hawk

North Central Texas
Does the powder wipe off with yer finger?

It seems to be glued to the bullet. You can scape it off with a fingernail, but it doesn't just wipe off like it's stuck by static electricity. I'm storing these in glass jars.

I wasn't expecting this type of PC to powder reaction after only two weeks.

I'm looking for something that I can load this year and maybe carry on the deer lease for three, four or who knows how many years.

I'm happy Blue Dot doesn't seem to be reacting to it. It's doesn't seem to be as good in the 10mm as Longshot, but it's close and I've got a ton of it.

Dad and I used to load a lot of 12 gauge in the 80s and 90s. The Dot powders were a staple back then and I'm still using them in handguns.

Sure, there may be newer and better powders now, but why buy them unless they offer a distinct advantage when I've got more of the Dot powders than I may use in my lifetime.

The 10mm is a new cartridge for me and I thought I'd try something new. Just need to figure this out. I really like the PC'ed boolits.
 

Ian

Notorious member
At the risk of sounding naïve, I've never heard of it. Please enlighten me.

Mechanic slang. French for Big F%&#$%@ Hammer. See if the PC unlinked the nitroglycerin from the cellulose and re-combined with it to make an unstable plastic explosive by smacking one of your suspect bullets "briskly". PPE recommended.
 

Hawk

North Central Texas
New it meant big hammer thanks to high school french class (took that class because Norine Benson was in that class, what memories!)
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I don't know if it's the nitro, it seems to me it would be more an outgassing of the solvents, or a chemical reaction that breaks the powder down not the polys.
the same powders that attack the powder coating are the ones that attack the tubes on our powder dispensers.
it's like they worm their way in between the linked strands.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Might be solvents, or leftover residue from manufacturing. Some of the new powders are made with a process that reduces the water washing and hence toxic liquid waste volume, so the powder kernels may be "dirty" with something that reacts to certain plastics.