Lube, let's hear the low down

JSH

Active Member
I know we have some very experienced and knowledgable folks here.

With all the synthetic blends today, what is useful and easily found, good machine lube/lubes, for turning, milling,ways, gears etc.

I was pointed to bar and chain oil for the ways. Good bad or ugly?

Bill told me about some grease, I should have written the specs down and didn't.
Is pipe thread cutting oil ok for cutting oil on the lathe?

I have read several threads but they seem to veer of topic severely.
Jeff
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I use Mobil Vactra 2 on the ways. For the gear box I use Mobil DTE medium heavy. These were recommended by the place I got the lathe from. I ordered from Encourage when they had free shipping so that wasn't a factor.

For cutting I have some pipe threading oil I bought. For Al I have used WD 40, it does OK. The WD40 also gets lots of use as a solvent for cleaning the lathe.

For tapping steel I bit the bullet and bought a pint of Castro Moly Dee. Man does it work as advertised. That pint will likely last me a long, long time.

I have seen so many things recommended for cutting that it makes my head swim. Seems everyone out there has some mystical combination that is just magic. I haven't tried most just because what I'm using seems to be fine for my needs.
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
Most small lathes and mills can do quite well with any good grade of way oil. Mobil Vactra 2 is fine. I use a Shell product that was recommended by the local distributor, seems to work fine. Same thing with gear oil. Most equipment should have documentation of the recommended lubricants, older stuff may list items that are no longer available. No problem, just take the list to your local distributor (or call MSCDIRECT if you live in the boonies) and let them help you out.

As for cutting oil, on the CNC lathe and mill, which we use almost every work day, we use a water soluble cutting fluid. We buy it in five gallon buckets and dilute it about 100:1 water:eek:il. As we run the machines some of the water evaporates and we top it up with plain water to get it back to the proper concentration. It looks like 2% milk. We use it for all machining operations on all metals including steel, stainless, aluminum, brass and titanium.

On the manual mill and lathe we use synthetic fluids such as tapmagic, Sgt Brown's cutting fluid, and other similar lubes. These are not meant to flood the part like soluble oil, they act right at the surface so a little goes a long way. I buy 1" bristle brushes at Harbor Freight by the box. A few drops of oil on the brush and then "paint" the surface or the tap before you cut. A little can last a long time for hobbyist operations.

Cutting fluids are supposed to do three things:

1. Reduce friction when cutting. This includes preventing chips from sticking to the tool.
2. Cool the tool and part.
3. Flush away chips.

Soluble oil and flood coolant does all three. Spot/surface fluids can only do the first, so speeds, feeds, and cutting depth has to be controlled to prevent overheating tools and the work. Not a real problem for the hobbyist, mass production is another story.

Haven't used pipe cutting oil much, it's closer to gear cutting oil than anything else and is intended to be a pure oil flood coolant. I am not sure but I thought many pipe cutting fluids contain sulfur, which can react with some metals. There are better fluids available at reasonable cost.

A lot of machining operations such as turning can be done "dry", but I would NEVER recommend tapping dry, especially aluminum and stainless. In a pinch WD40, kerosene, even 3-in-1 oil is better than nothing. (Alox bullet lube for tapping?)

Most vendors and distributors know more about lube than I do, I tell them what I need and let them earn their money.

By the way, if you have a good air compressor setup using high speed air as a coolant when machining can help keep tool/part temperatures down.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Thanks for the info Keith.
I appreciate the fact you mentioned differences between the needs of a hobbyist and a production shop.

I do much turning dry. The thought of tapping dry scares me immensely. I see broken taps when that is done.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
with pipe cutting oil you really need to flood the area thoroughly for it to carry heat away.
when I would get on a roll cutting pipe nipples I would sometimes use 2 nozzles and an apprentice to keep the chips flushed out and the cutting head cooled down.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Fiver, I am sure you are doing a whole bunch of threading in a day, a true industrial application, and like
Keith says - whole different thing from hobbyists. I haven't needed to thread my own pipe in years, did it some
in the late 60s. Then just a few shots of whatever oil was handy, but we are talking two ends in a day. :D

Keith - that milky lube was always frustrating for me when I would go to watch our shop making parts.
You couldn't see a darned thing, just a white ball of spray! Darn. I wanted to watch the chips fly on those
CNC machines, but you just can't.:(

I am running ATF in my lathe gearbox for the 6 month breaking period. Grizzly, as much as I like them, was selling some
$65 a gallon snake oil for this application, and you need more than one gallon. I just can't bite that any oil is worth that
especially when I can get Mobil industrial oil spec'd for that application for $23/gal. Once I hit the oil change, the Mobil will
go in. Since my motor is 2 hp, and max speed is 1400 rpm, I couldn't see how ATF, which is good for 400+ hp and
100+ mph in auto transmission applications couldn't be good enough, at least for breakin. Probably good enough for
permanent, but I did get the proper machine tool lube oil for after breakin. Going to have a WHOLE LOT of ATF for
penetrating oil base in a couple of months!:D

I have just been putting 10W-30 oil on my ways.....is this bad? Seems OK, but I really don't know. If this Vactra is the
right stuff, I will get some. What's the diff?

+1 on boxes of 1" Harbor Freight chip brushes! And some 2" ones, too.

Bill
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Vactra, like Jeff's chain and bar oil has some tackifiers added. It sticks to the surfaces better rather than running off. Other than that I don't think there is much difference. I bought some as the price wasn't bad and for my use a gallon lasts for many years. It goes in all the ball oilers on the lathe too.

I just looked at the cutting oil I bought. It is Mobilmet 766. I can't tell if it is significantly different from the pipe cutting oil from the big box store or not but again, the price wasn't bad for the amount I need over time. Not recommended for yellow metal as Keith mentioned. Again, a gallon will last me many years, possibly a decade.

My cutting oil is applied with a flux brush and is in one of these containers.
http://www.penntoolco.com/spillmaster-containers/
I don't plan on knocking it off the lathe but the price was right and it certainly meets my needs.

ATF in the gearbox is a new one to me. The logic certainly makes sense, they are similar in many ways to a transmission.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Cool container. I never plan any of my accidents. :D Perhaps if I did, they would
work out better.:rolleyes:

Yeah, if ATF can handle a high HP car motor gearset for 100,000+ miles, seems like
it would be OK to break in a 2 hp lathe gearbox.

I'll see if I can find some Vactra at a reasonable price.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
type F would be a slightly better choice.
I know many guy's that would run it in place of the Mercon oils in their race applications.
the F had a higher friction value so was a little rougher on the clutches [shrug] they weren't trying to get another 20-K miles out of them, they just wanted the 'best' reasonable fluid for the application.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
I run Vactra on the ways and DTE in the head. Can't remember for sure but I think the apron is full of plain old 30 weight.

Castrol Moly Dee is great stuff for machining medium to high carbon steels. Just be sure to wipe it completely off your part and your machine within a couple of hours, as it does promote rust.

Like Keith, I use soluble in the coolant sump on the lathe. When just brushing cutting oil onto a part, I tend toward using purified lard oil, as I have less worries about the incidental inhalation of the smoke from it.
 
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JSH

Active Member
ATF fluid. When I worked at the local COOP, the station manager had his FIL Chevy pickup with the dang canister filter. The old gent bought it brand new in 67. Had a 327 as I recall. Valve gaskets were leaking and we decided to change them. Along with putting a spin on adapter for the oil filter

4 quarts of oil and a quart of ATF every oil change. It had a gosh awful lot of miles for a truck of that vintage and I am sure a lot of idle time as well.
Pulled the valve covers off and we expected a lot of sludge. The cleanest motor I ever tore apart. I swear you could eat off of the top side of those heads.
Forward a few years. Old truck started with a new noise. Dropped the pan and there were a couple of piston skirts in it. The grand kids had been driving it off and on.

Pulled the motor, and tore it down. Just as clean as could be. No ridge or ring groove on any of the cylinders. Imagine we caught the broken skirts quick enough.

I had a good set of standard pistons and we put it back together with some new rings.

Forward again, about a total of 30 years. They put a new cam in it about 10 years ago a set of pistons .10'over and rings. They were still driving it last fall.
All those years with that quart of ATF.

I have used it numerous times for a break in fluid.
It is thin enough and enough detergent that it should wash out anything you didn't want in there.

Got a couple 8" Viking pumps at work with 100-150hp motors on them. We got caught in the flood on the Missouri River. Couldn't get the pumps or gear boxes out before the high water got us.

Drained those gear boxes of 80-90 and used ATF for several weeks to get the moisture out.

The one thing on ATF. It will crawl out where other lubes won't. It can and will cause a leak.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
yep it will work it's way into every nook and cranny.
it is the best break free I ever seen.
I keep a little squirt can of atf mixed with acetone for the rusty stuff I need to unscrew.

I still use it in my engines as a cleaning agent.
about 800-1,000 miles before an oil change I dump in a half quart or so and let it do it's job.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Yes, I keep MEK and ATF pumper oil can for penetrating oil Disassembled a very rusty tractor
blade that my brother gave me by mixing up a small batch at his house using mineral spirits,
the only solvent he had handy. All the horribly rusted bolts (coastal GA) unscrewed all the
bolts perfectly fine.

The oil I will put in the lathe gearbox "for good" is Mobil DTE 26, the correct viscosity called out for the gearbox.
I have two gallons in stock, waiting for the six months breakin to end.

Bill
 

Intheshop

Banned
Ya'll are covering pretty well (Vactra,ATF/acetone,etc)....

Here's a cpl that we use in the general working sense and from a resto pov.

50/50,ATF and mineral spirits.Think more lube than the acetone.Works great on any "working" pce of equipment that's exposed to water.Wet grinding where we need to clean the water off the pce.Also use it on plastic bits on cars/trucks.Shop truck.

Next is Texaco Rustproof compound L.Found a G under a national register house we did the resto on.Can was/is pre war (WW II)...and was 90% full.Good luck finding it,but it is out there.We use it on equipment resto's.

Next,another oldy but goody...Na-Nor bowling alley wax....C.A.Nash & son-Norfolk Va.This is what,renaissance wax wishes it was.Again,worth looking for old stock.
 

Intheshop

Banned
Pistol,on the Texaco L....

A pea sized lump spread on a rag will coat about a football sized part.Parts on machinery that's left "in the white"....get finished to say around an 800 g.,or so.Then hit the buffer/finisher....finish wipe with the "L".Put into service.Then in use (or dis-use) just a wipe with whatever rag handy once in awhile.

The stuff beats anything I've ever seen.We've used maybe a cup or two in 25 years.And there's been a BUNCH of resto's come through here.Our reloading room is climate controlled but,if it was in a garage or something,I'd be covering everything with it.It's put on then hand buffed.Not a thick,sticky mess like cosmoline....although looks like it in the container.