Lyman 311644 , 190 grs.

[Ben]

Lyman 311644 Double cav.
I'll be holding this one on Wednesday of this week.
Owner says it is a very accurate bullet out of his Springfield rifles.
Says he can shoot sub 1" groups @ 100 yds with the bullet.
I was concerned about how round and the dia. of cast bullets from the mould. He told me he used clip on WW's exclusively and was getting about .3118", nice and round.

Tell me the good, the bad, and the ugly on this one.

Ben

 

[waco]

Funny this mold should show up while Brad is playing around with cutting grooves in the nose of his .44 bullets.
That's an odd mold Ben. What can you tell us about it?

 

[Ben]

I've done a good bit of reading on that particular design.
Seems that at one point in time, it was popular with the benchrest crowd.
Lyman made at least 2 versions of it.
I thought it might be worth the gamble once the owner assured me his were dropping very close to .312".

Ben

 

[RicinYakima]

Well, I used it to win the first CBA military national matches, Modified Iron Sights, and set a national record with it in 2006. It was Lyman's first new design for .30 caliber since the 1960's. The good news is that they were basically handmade moulds trying to get their reputation back from SAECO and RCBS. I asked Ken Ramage why the grooves on the nose, he said all the old designs had them so he made them that way. I never had a problem getting them to shoot at 100.

The bad news is they were hard for me to cast perfect bullets, the BC is poor with the grooved nose which makes them wind drift a lot at 200 and 300 yards. A .312" die would just touch the tops when sizing from WW's +2% tin.

HTH, Ric

 

[Ben]

I don't shoot at 200 or 300,( my range does not have provisions for that ) so thanks for that report Ric.
May be OK for my applications ? ?
I also read that it shoots well in the 308 Win.

Ben

 

[Ian]

Best .30-caliber mould Lyman ever made IMO.

 

[waco]

So my next question is are you going to PB this mold?

 

[fiver]

those rings/grooves do need to be nice.

I would spend my time working/worrying on that part of the bullet rather than the base. [fitment and engraving]
the base will follow suit just from paying attention to those.

 

[Brad]

I have the 270 version of that mould. It can be a pain to get to cast well. Mine also needs some adjusting as the mould halves don't line up properly.

 

[JSH]

Is the idea of the forward grooves to get a jammed fit in the throat?
Or was it somthing to do with weight as far as balancing?

If it is tapered front to back, some what of Louverin style design.
Jeff

 

[Ben]

So my next question is are you going to PB this mold?

I have about 14 or 15 plain base .30 cal. moulds.
Those should keep me busy for awhile.
I have no plans of plain basing this Lyman 311644.

Ben

 

[fiver]

kind of a jammed fit.
the grooves just give the lead displaced by the lands somewhere to go.
their purpose is to avoid changing the shape of the bullet under stress.
that big long drive band in the middle does the bulk of the twist work, but you need to get the rifling engraved into that without upsetting the shape of the rest of the bullet.

 

[RicinYakima]

Ken Ramage said he designed it that way because the old Schutzen bullets had them. You were to hand lube them for lube on the top of the lands. Remember this was 25 years ago and what the old timers did in Schutzen was the gospel. They were still on sizing to bore diameter and crimping cases for bolt guns.

 

[Maven]

I used to own one of the original versions of #311644 (made in 1999) and was very pleased with how well it cast and with the accuracy it gave in spite of its .3095" diameter. Had it dropped slightly larger CB's, .311" for ex., I wouldn't have sold it. Ben, since your version casts .311", I expect it to be a m.o.a. or smaller performer.

Slight correction about who designed that mold and smaller caliber versions of it: It was Ed Schmitt, not C. Kenneth Ramage. See p. 123 of "Lyman's 47th Reloading Handbook."

 

[RicinYakima]

I stand corrected! Thank you.

 

[Maven]

You're most welcome, Ric.

Btw, the 6.5mm version of Schmitt's design was just as accurate in my Swedish Mau. as it -644 was in my .30-06.

 

[Ben]

The mould arrived today.

I mixed two pieces of lino per 20 pounds of clip on WW's.

Here is what they look like :

I assume that this mould was made in Feb. 1998

With lube and a gas check, looks like this one will hit
200 grains :

 

[fiver]

milsurp 30 cal

 

[Ian]

That is one fine mould, Ben, you'll love it. If you get froggy it shoots really well at starting jacketed bullet levels in the '06.

 

[quicksylver]

With that .305 nose I wonder how far in you would have to seat it in the neck to get it to chamber in a two groove ?