Lyman no 2 alloy
- Thread starter johnnyjr
- Start date
fiver
Well-Known Member
lino is not the way you want to go.
cut in half with 2% more tin is fine.
i've been using that 4/6 mix for quite a while, but have started mixing it with 1/3 50-50 to come down a little more.
there's a line where cost gets you no more, and quite often is detrimental to the cause.
speed is simple.
you need a system that works together.
design, alloy, powder speed, and OAL all have to work together in a balance.
change one and you end up changing another to make the balance come back around again.
if one lets you down,,, you'll just chase your tail trying to use one of the others to try and make up for it.
cut in half with 2% more tin is fine.
i've been using that 4/6 mix for quite a while, but have started mixing it with 1/3 50-50 to come down a little more.
there's a line where cost gets you no more, and quite often is detrimental to the cause.
speed is simple.
you need a system that works together.
design, alloy, powder speed, and OAL all have to work together in a balance.
change one and you end up changing another to make the balance come back around again.
if one lets you down,,, you'll just chase your tail trying to use one of the others to try and make up for it.
Ian
Notorious member
#2 is good stuff because it ain't too brittle. I use a lot of "half #2" made up with known scrap boosted with a little pure tin or solder mix and Rotometals Superhard to make 2.5/2.5. It does higher speeds well in most stuff (to a point, won't do what Fiver's alloy will unless powder coated), and is great for hunting. By and large harder means brittle and brittle doesn't do you any favors at all. The other cheat is take good old clip-on wheelweight metal, add about 1% tin, and heat treat it up to about 20-22 bhn.
JonB
Halcyon member
Like Ian mentions, I think Heat Treat is the way to go.
I did a couple HT tests, one with 3/3/94 and the other with COWW.
I never got good accuracy trying to push them 2500fps and beyond.
Like fiver says, you got to have the balance, I'm sure I never had that.
After those tests, I went back to air cooled COWW alloy or the 94/3/3 air cooled
and was just happy loading "accurate enough" loads going about 1800-2000 fps.
I did a couple HT tests, one with 3/3/94 and the other with COWW.
Heat treat
Today was Heat treat day for my HV project for my Mod 70 win in 243. These are NOE 245-75 FN cast in 94-3-3 alloy. Sizing and installing Gator GC http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/Heattreat1sizeandGC_zps0b78b77b.jpg OK, I found out that packing a tuna can takes...
castboolits.gunloads.com
Like fiver says, you got to have the balance, I'm sure I never had that.
After those tests, I went back to air cooled COWW alloy or the 94/3/3 air cooled
and was just happy loading "accurate enough" loads going about 1800-2000 fps.
fiver
Well-Known Member
quench cooled alloy, and 4/6 work their best with different bullet designs.
i've found the more pointed type designs like the 4/6 with a smidge of jump. [chuckle,, forget what i done in the XCB writeup with the jam, that was another scenario altogether]
the heat quenched does better with jammed and aligned by diameter bullets with more drive band length.
at the same speeds the jumped har errr tougher [actually lower BHN] bullet will thrive with the medium speed powders.
going the slowest or too slow for the caliber powder works with the jammed softer alloy, you actually give the powder a kick in the pants, but it still gives the bullet a shove over length.
still have to have a strong supported bullet in either case.
i've found the more pointed type designs like the 4/6 with a smidge of jump. [chuckle,, forget what i done in the XCB writeup with the jam, that was another scenario altogether]
the heat quenched does better with jammed and aligned by diameter bullets with more drive band length.
at the same speeds the jumped har errr tougher [actually lower BHN] bullet will thrive with the medium speed powders.
going the slowest or too slow for the caliber powder works with the jammed softer alloy, you actually give the powder a kick in the pants, but it still gives the bullet a shove over length.
still have to have a strong supported bullet in either case.
richhodg66
Well-Known Member
I have quite a bit of linotype on hand and also quite a bit of pure tin. When the weather permits, i plan on making a lot of #2 alloy up and will proably just standardize on that for rifle bullets .30 caliber and smaller.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
The important thing to take away from all this is that finding the balance point with a bullet/load/alloy is the important part, and that it doesn't come from just one variable, eg- harder isn't simply better. Fit is king, and fit comes from balancing things. Fiver and Ian are real good at it with smaller bores and higher velocities. Others of us (me) have less success with velocity above 2K, but remain quite happy being able to shoot good groups at somewhat reduced speeds with simple alloys of not-really-known-for-sure-makeup.
fiver
Well-Known Member
and that's a good place to start.
mickey mouse around with things looking for that other quarter inch, you'll learn a lot.
one thing to screw around with is powder speed, and then alloy.
my 20" 308 pushes a 165 out at 1900 fps.
i can get there 5 different ways.
the most best of the best is with stuff reduced and strengthened and tamped, chopped-cut-poked-tensioned, and prodded [some brand or other] cases, BR'd, and fillered.
the whole 9yds. [well 6 of them anyway...LOL] with a 200 dollar scope and an ultralight rifle.
if something like that responds to something silly like messing around with the alloy for a long bore riding bullet it's worth the effort to make small batches and observe the results.
mickey mouse around with things looking for that other quarter inch, you'll learn a lot.
one thing to screw around with is powder speed, and then alloy.
my 20" 308 pushes a 165 out at 1900 fps.
i can get there 5 different ways.
the most best of the best is with stuff reduced and strengthened and tamped, chopped-cut-poked-tensioned, and prodded [some brand or other] cases, BR'd, and fillered.
the whole 9yds. [well 6 of them anyway...LOL] with a 200 dollar scope and an ultralight rifle.
if something like that responds to something silly like messing around with the alloy for a long bore riding bullet it's worth the effort to make small batches and observe the results.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
My whole approach is pretty lackadaisical when it comes to alloy, bullets, casting, and shooting. I have never enjoyed shooting full power rifle ammo for fun and target work. I find anything that recoils much more than factory .30-30 to be unpleasant and unnecessary for the pleasure shooting that I do. I enjoy offhand shooting at knock down mild steel targets at ranges up to 210 yards on my home range, and rest shooting out to a quarter mile again at knock down steel targets.
I found that ammo with a muzzle velocity of 1,800 fps and faster damages my targets and recoil begins to become noticeable especially since I'd often be shooting 50-100 rounds in a session.
Holding the vast majority of my ammo in the 1,400 to 1,700 fps velocity range allows me to be pretty darned casual about things like alloy. I shoot plain base up to about 1,400 fps and check everything faster than that. Plain old air cooled wheel weight alloy is adequate, when sized to .311" for my .30 caliber rifles and loaded with reasonable care regarding case prep and neck tension I can count on 2 MOA ammo. My bore get treated like my .22 rimfires. A pass with a patch on a jag with Ed's Red, followed by a dry patch and never any leading.
For the small amount of ammo where I want jacketed bullet performance, I simply, (gasp), use jacketed bullets.
I found that ammo with a muzzle velocity of 1,800 fps and faster damages my targets and recoil begins to become noticeable especially since I'd often be shooting 50-100 rounds in a session.
Holding the vast majority of my ammo in the 1,400 to 1,700 fps velocity range allows me to be pretty darned casual about things like alloy. I shoot plain base up to about 1,400 fps and check everything faster than that. Plain old air cooled wheel weight alloy is adequate, when sized to .311" for my .30 caliber rifles and loaded with reasonable care regarding case prep and neck tension I can count on 2 MOA ammo. My bore get treated like my .22 rimfires. A pass with a patch on a jag with Ed's Red, followed by a dry patch and never any leading.
For the small amount of ammo where I want jacketed bullet performance, I simply, (gasp), use jacketed bullets.
Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
Linotype is not without value as an alloy for small cast bullets. It was designed to fill out smaller letters in a line of type print. It therefore fills out small caliber cast bullets quite well. I cast my 25-20 bullets from it and it works just great. I does have a downside or two, but hey, life and bullet casting is full of compromises.