Near total loss

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Thanks Bill, I'll pass that link along.

Many suggestions have come up over the years. Look in this picture to the left of the building, that is a fire water storage tank and there are several around the 100 acre property. It's not hooked up to anything except a fire hose, not for use for anything else. Difficult to tell from the angle of this photo but it is higher than this pic makes it look, bottom of the tank is higher than the roof of the office building. It's basically useless except for a spot fire near the tank and without the winds. It would be suicide for someone to be there in this fire with 70 mph wind gusts during a 2,000+ degree firestorm.

Saturday morning, 12/9/17. First day of clean up.

First cleanup day-99.jpg

Not possible to mist the roof or building prior to the fire arriving. 70 mph wind, single digit humidity and you wouldn't even get the roof wet. Next problem is how fast the fire spreads, this one started only a couple of miles from the range. From the time it started it had spread to over 10,000 acres in only a matter of hours. Near where it started is/was a multi million dollar horse ranch with brick buildings and tile roofs. It has city water, fire hydrants and people living on the location, horses burned to death. Moments after overwhelming the horse property it reached ASR/LASC.

Pretty doubtful there will be any extravagant building techniques, building will also no doubt be slow and a bit at a time as the money becomes available. The cost of such things such as dumpsters for clean up (on going right now), blue prints for the building to get permits and the permits themselves is kind of depressing. Then of course is the cost of the building. RB's suggestion of a metal building could be a good one and I'll pass the idea along.

The intensity and the speed of these fires is pretty difficult to comprehend for anyone that hasn't experienced them. I have great respect for the fire fighters that face a completely overwhelming enemy. They have air tankers and the trucks & equipment, thousands of people, the knowledge and skill and still the fire spreads, hundreds of homes burn and countless lives destroyed.
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Intheshop

Banned
The "scale" of such a catastrophe can not fully sink in looking at pictures or vids.

We call them,total loss construction or buildings.See them very frequently in smaller wood working facilities.Can't get insurance?Build a TL structure.Flood plane construction is highly debated since Katrina from insurance industry standpoint.Same thing,TL building is what appears to be the new norm.The notion is a black eye to most,but is sort of a natural progression?

Best of luck with the rebuild.BW
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
If you have a "firestorm" type even as outlined above, I don't think even a steel clad, steel framed building is going to stand much of a chance.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
It's pretty tough to fight back, that horse ranch is proof of that. Much of the ASR range areas burned 7-8 years ago so there was that much accumulation of fuel and looked what happened. Many areas haven't burned in 20-30 years or more so think of the fuel available to the fire there. Without the wind these fires are mostly manageable with the County fire guys doing an incredible job, add in the wind and it's a whole new ballgame and yet there they are putting there lives on the line to save someone else's property and lives.

Probably 10 years or so ago now there was a guy at the public range having a jolly time watching the sparks fly while shooting steel jacketed ammo at rocks on the hillside off the range property. Steel jacket ammo of any type is illegal in the National forest for that very reason. It's also prohibited at the ASR ranges and range officers frequently check suspect ammo with a magnet. County Fire did a masterful job of containing the fire to only a few acres, no wind that day, and then the moron had a jolly time watching the Sherriff put the cufs on him. He is legally responsible for the cost of fighting the fire, I imagine he is financially ruined to this day. Quite some time ago, maybe 25-30 years ago there was a guy that over 2-3 years had been intentionally setting fires during Santa Ana conditions and then going home and watching the houses burn on TV. During his fun spree there had been a few deaths and numerous injuries. Sheriff and fire investigators found him and he was convicted and sentenced to life of free room & board.

Except for incidents like the two mental midgets I mentioned here it is a natural phenomenon, been happening for millions of years, ain't about to stop now just because 15 million people moved into the area.
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
If you have a "firestorm" type even as outlined above, I don't think even a steel clad, steel framed building is going to stand much of a chance.
Look at what happened to a fine handgun in a safe.
If the temp outside gets hot enough the steel building becomes an oven.

Fire, like earthquakes, is just a fact of life in the southern CA hills.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Rick
Over in Delano (I think) is 3 Dogs (I think it's been 10 yr ago) had a metal arch building for their club house .
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I sent off an email suggesting that they look into metal buildings. Around here ya can get one put up on your slab that would be big enough for around $15-18 thousand. That still leaves ya with insulation, interior walls, full electric and plumbing etc. but certainly worth looking into. The club lost everything such as computer system, programs, office equipment, firearms, furniture, PA systems, electrical system, cabinets, maintenance supplies, kitchen equipment, refrigerators/freezers. Literally everything to re-open and hold any events.
 

pokute

Active Member
You forgot to mention the bathrooms. We even lost the bathrooms.

It looks like all shooting is on hold until after the first of the year. Unfortunately I already committed to taking the week BEFORE Christmas off to spend at the range. I've got a "secret spot" out in the desert, but it's a two hour drive. And any shooting out there seems to be a regular magnet for meth addicts.

Rick, are you sure you aren't talking about the Glendale FD chief arson investigator who was starting all the fires until about 22 years ago? He also liked to set the Glendale recycling center on fire at least once a year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Leonard_Orr
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah, bathrooms were, used to be the same building.

I remember the Glendale fire inspector, they even made a TV show about that whack job. No this fruit loop was the guy waiting on the very best of wind days and setting the whole damn world on fire.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Oh no, that will make Rick’s head swell!

Welcome to the forum. And yes, Rick has been very helpful for many of us.
 

pokute

Active Member
Hey, for a $500 donation to a range that he doesn't get a lot of use out of, Rick's entitled to a swolled head. I shoot there every week, when the toilets aren't burned down.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Rick has a bunch of sweat and blood in that place. I figure it had something to do with his knowledge base.

At least a couple others here made donations too. Gotta support our fellow shooters
 

pokute

Active Member
Here's the almost untouched firing line:
LASC-Fire_05.jpg
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
See the burned dirt edge? That was a telephone pole retaining wall set 3 feet+ into the ground. I know how deep the trench was because I was in the hole holding them straight as the next one was slid in. George Adams was on a back hoe digging the trench behind me as the poles went in. A mighty risky job considering George on the equipment. :eek: Burned every one of those poles off right at the ground (well over 200 feet of them) and didn't touch the roof.
 

pokute

Active Member
See the burned dirt edge? That was a telephone pole retaining wall set 3 feet+ into the ground. I know how deep the trench was because I was in the hole holding them straight as the next one was slid in. George Adams was on a back hoe digging the trench behind me as the poles went in. A mighty risky job considering George on the equipment. :eek: Burned every one of those poles off right at the ground (well over 200 feet of them) and didn't touch the roof.

Yeah, I was staring at that and trying to remember what was there! There was no debris at all! There was a tiny burn on the roof where a branch fell on it. Nearly everything that burned left no charcoal or ashes because of the wind. Stuff just disappeared. There were some places at Moore&Moore that were still burning on Saturday - Looked like tree roots burning in holes in the ground.
 

pokute

Active Member
Just saw this. What destruction, what a loss! So sorry for the guys shooting there.

It's totally wrecked my holiday vacation. I was planning on shooting all next week. All my casting stuff is in storage... I guess I'll be doing a lot of cleaning and grip refinishing. Not as much fun as wasting lead. If the range really does reopen on the first, I'll get one day of shooting in before going back to work. Not much to my life right now other than shooting.

I've got a source for good used office furniture, and I'm meeting Dennis from ASR today to donate 5 desks and filing cabinets (all old Steelcase stuff) for the main range office that also burned.