Neck tension

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Looking at the thread by Waco on lead shaving leads me to a question.

How much tension do you like with handgun cartridges? Auto different from revolver?

I don't want much more than .002 in auto loaders but have used more in revolver cartridges. 9 mm is particularly sensitive due to the rapid taper in the case.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Revolvers: I only load to 900 f/s or less due to bad hands. So my rule of thumb is; size case and expand with "M" type die exactly the same size as I sized bullet. Seat to crimp groove and lightly crimp. The only time I have had problems is with .455 Webley with 290 grain bullets. I solved it by crimping heavier.
Auto-loaders: Straight cases are sized below the base of bullet, expanded so that base of bullet seats on the wasp waist of the case. Bottleneck auto-loaders are expanded with .002" smaller "M" die and crimped. All of my cast bullet loads are for accuracy with function, nothing hotter than book loads.

Since I make most of my "M" dies, there is a lot of freedom for expanders for each case length.
 
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waco

Springfield, Oregon
James always told me a good way to tell if you have good neck tension in the 44 was if you could see the base of the bullet in the case. A faint ring.
I have no idea if there is any validity to this or if that is just what James (44 Man) looked for.

I can just see the base of the bullet in these 44 loads with the new brass. I have no idea hoe "much" tension there is......
You can just see it in the pic below.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
If the load shoots "consistently" it's enough. If you pull a bullet and the case has sized the bullet it's too much.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
In light of my previous problems, I did pull a couple of bullets and they still measure .430”
 

Ian

Notorious member
I agree with Ric 100%, that's what works best for me too. I was turning custom expander spuds from bolts long before I had a lathe, plus buying the RCBS cast bullet expanding dies and spuds (much better shape in my opinion to the stepped M spuds).

James advocated what amounts to .004-5" interference fit, which is almost what you get using standard dies. He and I talked a lot about that and he spent a lot of years figuring out through extensive testing that he got the best accuracy doing that. Basically what he said to me was if I couldn't see where the lube grooves were through the brass, it wasn't tight enough. Remember, he used a lot of WW296 for his .44 loads and almost exclusively used water-dropped straight wheelweight alloy, so his bullets were around 24 bhn and could withstand being loaded in tight brass. The neck tension is what makes 296 burn consistently. This worked for him and will work for anybody doing what he was doing...which doesn't apply to everything we load in a .44. If your powder lights a little more easily (like 2400 or True Blue, for example) you may not need as much tension, nor as tough a bullet, and will actually do better with less case tension. Magnum revolvers of course require the bullets be retained firmly, but I say only as much tension as necessary should be used, not as much as you can get. Your targets and chronograph statistics will tell you what YOUR system needs if you experiment a little.

One of the big takeaways for me from conversations and reading about revolver loading techniques is not to rely on crimp to retain the bullets. Crimp is just icing on the cake, and you should be able to shoot all but the hottest loads with no crimp applied and the bullets shouldn't creep out under recoil.

A GOOD expander spud design should have fairly abrupt taper to the part that's actually expanding the case mouth and that tapered shoulder should swage away any burrs or sharp edges on the case mouth. Chamfering helps, but so does expander shape.
 

pokute

Active Member
I recently found an old C&H knurling tool that I'm hoping to try out soon. Anybody use a knurling tool for neck tension enhancing?
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
What exactly is it designed to knurl? The bullet? The inside or outside of the neck? Never heard of this so I will watch this thread with interest.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Is a cannelure to I creae tension or set a base to prevent bullet set back?
My understanding is that they located the base of the bullet
 

pokute

Active Member
Okay, yes, cannelure tool. Like this:
c-and-h-cannelure-tool.jpg
 

pokute

Active Member
Is a cannelure to I creae tension or set a base to prevent bullet set back?
My understanding is that they located the base of the bullet

They can be used for all sorts of things. You can make a crimp groove, set a base, or use it like a 'stab crimp' to increase tension.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Might help?
I don’t know that it would be as repeatable as I would want.
It also would be more like a crimp and now sure if it would increase tension as much as a snug sizer and small expander