OK, got the Lathe, Tooling, and now I need "consumables"
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
I use 12L14 for lots of parts that won't receives lots of wear. Lee type sizers for example. I have made Star dies from it too. Perfect for top punches and such. Easy to machine and cheap, relatively speaking.
I have made some Star dies from O1 and left them unhardned. For sizing lead I doubt the dies will ever know the difference. Great matieral but not near as easy to get a nice finish on. O1 is also far tougher to lap to final size. Plan on taking a bit more time to remove much material.
I know KeithB made Star blanks from 1144 as I have some. It machines nicely too.
I haven't used much Al so I can't speak too much about it. I will say that while 6061 is soft it is also gummy. Lots of built up tool edge issues with that stuff. It also is prone to very long and stringy chips.
I buy more 12L14 than anything because most of my parts don't need to be really tough. A Star punch of a punch for a Lee type sizer has little stress on it. I go for ease of making the part any day.
I have made some Star dies from O1 and left them unhardned. For sizing lead I doubt the dies will ever know the difference. Great matieral but not near as easy to get a nice finish on. O1 is also far tougher to lap to final size. Plan on taking a bit more time to remove much material.
I know KeithB made Star blanks from 1144 as I have some. It machines nicely too.
I haven't used much Al so I can't speak too much about it. I will say that while 6061 is soft it is also gummy. Lots of built up tool edge issues with that stuff. It also is prone to very long and stringy chips.
I buy more 12L14 than anything because most of my parts don't need to be really tough. A Star punch of a punch for a Lee type sizer has little stress on it. I go for ease of making the part any day.
Last edited:
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I normally only keep 12L14 or 1018 (if I need to case harden something, i.e. gun part) on hand. Like Brad, I have limited use for aluminum and use brass much more. Almost all of the aluminum is used for mounting plates, etc. not anything machined. Ric
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
There are five or six grades of steel commonly available in round, square, and hex bars for turning. Quick guide to the four digit AISI/SAE steel numbering system: First two digits indicate a category for the alloying elements (other than carbon), the last two indicate the carbon content in 1/100%.
1018 steel is a plain carbon steel (10 category) with approximately .18% C. In general, a carbon content less than .24-.25% cannot be quench hardened, must be case hardened by adding carbon to surface. Easily welded but is soft enough to tear when cutting, easy on the tools and can be filed/sanded/polished to a good finish.
1144 steel is often called "Stressproof" and is a resulfurized steel (11 category) with .44% C. The slight sulfur content makes it easy to machine cleanly, the carbon content means it can be quench hardened, and you can get beautiful surface finishes with just a little work. Not recommended for parts that will be fusion welded together.
12L14 steel is a carbon steel that is resulfurized and rephosphorized (12 category) free machining grade of steel (L = lead added) with about .14% carbon. Machines beautifully, very easy on the tooling, but it cannot be quench hardened and usually isn't fusion welded (the lead content causes problems).
4140 steel is the one of the most versatile grades of steel ever developed. It is a chrome moly steel with .38% to .43% C. In the annealed state it machines well, although speeds and feeds have to be reduced compared to 12L14 or 1144. It can be easily quench hardened with a maximum tempered tensile strength of 150,000 to over 200,000 psi. Many blued steel firearms parts are made from 4140 steel.
4140 is also available in a "pre-hardened" state. The heat treating process makes the steel stronger and tougher without making it too hard to machine. It can take on a good finish but speeds and feeds must really be reduced. Even with carbide tooling it takes a while to machine compared to the free machining grades.
4140 can be fusion welded but you need to pre- and post-heat the parts or you will get a brittle weld that will fail. 1018 can be welded cold.
8620 steel is a nickel chrome moly steel with .2% C. It is strong yet easy to machine; it was designed specifically for case hardening purposes. Case hardening makes for a very hard surface with a softer and more ductile inner core.
A lot of plate, tubing, angle, and other wrought shapes are available in A36 grade (falls within a different steel numbering system) which is about the same as 1018. There are other grades of structural steel available but in my experience its often a special order thing.
In stainless steel there are usually only two grades available in rod stock - 304 and 316. 304L and 316L are designed to be weldable grades of 304 and 316 stainless. The same material is also available in angle, strip stock, etc. All SS is a pain to machine. Slow things down, use a positive feed with sharp tools, don't let your tools rub the surface. Cut or get off of it, dull tools and high pressure can work harden the surface and make it almost impossible to cut through.
In aluminum the most widely available grade is 6061. It is easy to machine but is not one of the stronger grades of Al. You can also get 2024 and 7075 in rods, bars, and plates. These last two are "aircraft" grade high strength Al alloys.
The steel rod you get in 2'-3' lengths at the hardware store is probably 1018 or close to it.
I've used bolts as raw material for turned parts with some success. I've had nothing but grief trying to use rebar as raw material for lathe projects. Often has hard spots, inclusions, etc., I think they must recycle a lot of junk steel into rebar.
I've also used old chrome plated cylinder rods (typically 1050 steel) but the problem is getting under the chrome. I have chucked up the rod in the lathe and used a cutoff grinder to cut a groove around the shaft, then switched to a regular cutoff tool to finish the job. Once you can get to one end you can turn down the OD to remove the chrome plating, although you will probably cut a notch in your tool where it cuts off the chrome. 1050 machines nicely, finishes well, and can be hardened by quenching.
Some used parts from cars and other equipment can be used as raw material, but I would stay away from anything that looks like it was hardened. If a file won't cut it your HSS tooling probably won't either.
1018 steel is a plain carbon steel (10 category) with approximately .18% C. In general, a carbon content less than .24-.25% cannot be quench hardened, must be case hardened by adding carbon to surface. Easily welded but is soft enough to tear when cutting, easy on the tools and can be filed/sanded/polished to a good finish.
1144 steel is often called "Stressproof" and is a resulfurized steel (11 category) with .44% C. The slight sulfur content makes it easy to machine cleanly, the carbon content means it can be quench hardened, and you can get beautiful surface finishes with just a little work. Not recommended for parts that will be fusion welded together.
12L14 steel is a carbon steel that is resulfurized and rephosphorized (12 category) free machining grade of steel (L = lead added) with about .14% carbon. Machines beautifully, very easy on the tooling, but it cannot be quench hardened and usually isn't fusion welded (the lead content causes problems).
4140 steel is the one of the most versatile grades of steel ever developed. It is a chrome moly steel with .38% to .43% C. In the annealed state it machines well, although speeds and feeds have to be reduced compared to 12L14 or 1144. It can be easily quench hardened with a maximum tempered tensile strength of 150,000 to over 200,000 psi. Many blued steel firearms parts are made from 4140 steel.
4140 is also available in a "pre-hardened" state. The heat treating process makes the steel stronger and tougher without making it too hard to machine. It can take on a good finish but speeds and feeds must really be reduced. Even with carbide tooling it takes a while to machine compared to the free machining grades.
4140 can be fusion welded but you need to pre- and post-heat the parts or you will get a brittle weld that will fail. 1018 can be welded cold.
8620 steel is a nickel chrome moly steel with .2% C. It is strong yet easy to machine; it was designed specifically for case hardening purposes. Case hardening makes for a very hard surface with a softer and more ductile inner core.
A lot of plate, tubing, angle, and other wrought shapes are available in A36 grade (falls within a different steel numbering system) which is about the same as 1018. There are other grades of structural steel available but in my experience its often a special order thing.
In stainless steel there are usually only two grades available in rod stock - 304 and 316. 304L and 316L are designed to be weldable grades of 304 and 316 stainless. The same material is also available in angle, strip stock, etc. All SS is a pain to machine. Slow things down, use a positive feed with sharp tools, don't let your tools rub the surface. Cut or get off of it, dull tools and high pressure can work harden the surface and make it almost impossible to cut through.
In aluminum the most widely available grade is 6061. It is easy to machine but is not one of the stronger grades of Al. You can also get 2024 and 7075 in rods, bars, and plates. These last two are "aircraft" grade high strength Al alloys.
The steel rod you get in 2'-3' lengths at the hardware store is probably 1018 or close to it.
I've used bolts as raw material for turned parts with some success. I've had nothing but grief trying to use rebar as raw material for lathe projects. Often has hard spots, inclusions, etc., I think they must recycle a lot of junk steel into rebar.
I've also used old chrome plated cylinder rods (typically 1050 steel) but the problem is getting under the chrome. I have chucked up the rod in the lathe and used a cutoff grinder to cut a groove around the shaft, then switched to a regular cutoff tool to finish the job. Once you can get to one end you can turn down the OD to remove the chrome plating, although you will probably cut a notch in your tool where it cuts off the chrome. 1050 machines nicely, finishes well, and can be hardened by quenching.
Some used parts from cars and other equipment can be used as raw material, but I would stay away from anything that looks like it was hardened. If a file won't cut it your HSS tooling probably won't either.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
I didn't mention two grades of tool steel - O1 and A2. O1 can be quench hardened in oil and A2 is an air hardening steel. I prefer O1 because it isn't nearly as likely to harden while cutting, but both are fine. I would probably pick 4140 for a die meant to size brass, almost any steel is fine for sizing lead bullets. O1 or 1144 would be my next choices, all three can be quench hardened easily. A lot depends on how much you need or are willing to by and what is available in the size/cross section you need.
Gary
SE Kansas
Once again, thank you Keith. That's the info I needed. Lead sizing is what I meant to say. Went to a local FFL holder who is a machinist and long range shooter and he gave me a few pieces of 3/4" steel and a thick brass tube (1.25" OD) and said he mostly dumped his "cut off" scraps in a ditch and the back of his property. I'm going to go "ditch diving" when the weather gets a little cooler.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
I hope this offer falls within the bounds of this site's policies. I'm not really trying to sell anything, and I don't consider the following to be an inducement to a "group buy". If the mods disagree they are more than welcome to do whatever they feel is appropriate.
I have access to a pretty good metal supplier. A lot of folks here have or plan to get a lathe. A lot of the items most folks plan to make are usually dies, punches, etc. If you guys can get together on something I'll be glad to buy it, cut it into shorter lengths, and mail it to you. You would only pay for your portion of the bar + flat rate shipping, I will cut the material off for free.
Example might be 1/2" 1144 round rod. That's the size for Lyman/RCBS top punches, also can make ejector pins for Lyman dies plus many other items. I get it in 12' lengths, would be no problem to cut it into one foot lengths and pack in box. Same for 7/8" for various dies.
Lots of independent minded people here (read that as herding cats) so you guys might not come to consensus, but if you do I will be glad to carry through my part. I will post a pic of the invoice I have to pay so everyone can see the original price. I'm not going to organize anything and I don't want to make (or lose) anything on the deal. If you order something I normally use I may join in and buy the unsold remainder, but if it isn't something I use I'd have to sell the whole bar.
I don't mind asking supplier for costs and other specs, they are always checking on material requests for me anyway.
I have access to a pretty good metal supplier. A lot of folks here have or plan to get a lathe. A lot of the items most folks plan to make are usually dies, punches, etc. If you guys can get together on something I'll be glad to buy it, cut it into shorter lengths, and mail it to you. You would only pay for your portion of the bar + flat rate shipping, I will cut the material off for free.
Example might be 1/2" 1144 round rod. That's the size for Lyman/RCBS top punches, also can make ejector pins for Lyman dies plus many other items. I get it in 12' lengths, would be no problem to cut it into one foot lengths and pack in box. Same for 7/8" for various dies.
Lots of independent minded people here (read that as herding cats) so you guys might not come to consensus, but if you do I will be glad to carry through my part. I will post a pic of the invoice I have to pay so everyone can see the original price. I'm not going to organize anything and I don't want to make (or lose) anything on the deal. If you order something I normally use I may join in and buy the unsold remainder, but if it isn't something I use I'd have to sell the whole bar.
I don't mind asking supplier for costs and other specs, they are always checking on material requests for me anyway.
Ian
Notorious member
Herding cats indeed! We're also hopeless scroungers, dumpster-divers, hoarders, and wheeler-dealers by nature, a result of the bullet metal and cartridge brass addiction. I see lathe work as no different. Occasionally the need for specific, known-quality material will arise (same as certain aspects of shooting supplies) but much of the time what can be found might be made to work. I for one find myself eyeballing stuff I see all around me with the thought "I bet my lathe could cut that...." as I grab a file out of my trunk.
A huge disappointment for me was realizing that 99% of the beautiful scrap pieces my workplace generates are far too tough to machine. Diesel engine wrist pins, air brake anchors and rollers, suspension pins and rods, steering parts, literally dump truck loads of scrap piled high for the taking and it's all either too hard or has been heat treated to be hard, and all of it unknown composition.
A huge disappointment for me was realizing that 99% of the beautiful scrap pieces my workplace generates are far too tough to machine. Diesel engine wrist pins, air brake anchors and rollers, suspension pins and rods, steering parts, literally dump truck loads of scrap piled high for the taking and it's all either too hard or has been heat treated to be hard, and all of it unknown composition.
Unlike Ian I have zero scrap around me. I buy all the material I use.
I have some ideas on what I could use. 7/8 or 1" 12L14 or 1144 and same material in 1/2 or 9/16.
I generally buy 3' lengths as my lathe can handle them that long. I make a part then cut it off. Less waste that way.
I have some ideas on what I could use. 7/8 or 1" 12L14 or 1144 and same material in 1/2 or 9/16.
I generally buy 3' lengths as my lathe can handle them that long. I make a part then cut it off. Less waste that way.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Ian, you need a forge to anneal all that scrap. Heat it above 1500 or so F, hold it until it loses all its magnetism, cool it slow. If its gonna soften this will do it. If you have access to a Machinery's Handbook there is a section that has a list of machine parts and the grade of steel that is often used to make them. No guarantee that what you have is made from the suggested material but it is better than being totally clueless.
By the way, I highly recommend Machinery's Handbook, it's almost indispensible to a machinist at any level. Doesn't have to be a new edition, the basic information has been consistent for a long time.
By the way, I highly recommend Machinery's Handbook, it's almost indispensible to a machinist at any level. Doesn't have to be a new edition, the basic information has been consistent for a long time.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Gary, that looks like the Guide to the real Handbook. The Handbook is a lousy textbook but a great reference. There are a lot of sections that need a little explanation and the guide can help with that. You can get the real MH in several printed size editions and also on CD for use on Macs and PCs. Don't believe there is an iPad compatible version out yet but I haven't checked in a while. The small printed toolbox edition is too small for my aging eyes so I use the full size printed edition and the computer app. Some of the bundled packages come with the guide.
The 26th edition is fine.
The 26th edition is fine.
Gary
SE Kansas
Got mine at www.abebooks.com $7.45 shipped. It's a used book and the 26th edition.
Carpenter steel put out a book....too lazy to go look for the date..."Tool Steel Simplified"
I got mine at some used book store for like .50 cents?
Find it,yellow cover....try amazon used books.
Edit...it's a dark green cover.The "yellow" cover is Ryherson(sp) handbook....got that one for free.The point being,these books are like reloading manuals.First,can't have enough of them,second.....uhhh,they're dirt cheap.
I got mine at some used book store for like .50 cents?
Find it,yellow cover....try amazon used books.
Edit...it's a dark green cover.The "yellow" cover is Ryherson(sp) handbook....got that one for free.The point being,these books are like reloading manuals.First,can't have enough of them,second.....uhhh,they're dirt cheap.
Last edited: