Old man and old cartridges

KHornet

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Just finished loading about 100 7.62x54R for my 1942 M91, and about 90 or so 45-70 for my #1.
Go/t to thinking about the nostalgia of loading these and some of the other cartridges that are
in,/ at, or beyond the 100 year mark. Can't help but think about Custer at Little Big Horn, with
T/rapdoor springfields, and leaving Gatling guns behind. And the Ruskies pushing back the
nazi at Stalingrad with the crudely made 91's. And all the others that come to mind including
the 30-40 Krags at San Juan Hill, the 03 Springfields and the 17 Enfields in WWI. And then the
other side of history the 7x57's that poured down from the top of San Juan hill. And of course
the 8x57 mausers and 30-06 Garands of WWII.

For some of us hooked on old ctgs and old Mil Surps, a major part of loading and shooting the
old warhorse cartridges, is a history lesson. At least it is for me. I enjoy firearms nostalga.

Paul
 
Ben

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
Not a thing wrong with the old ones Paul ! !
I enjoyed reading that...........

Ben
 
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waco

waco

Springfield, Oregon
Its' funny that some of my gun buddies have no clue as to how old some calibers are. I told one guy that the .38 SPL has been around since 1902.
He laughed in my face. Another friend thought I was lying to him when I told him the .30-06 has been around since 1906. Hence the name.
fiver said:
you know,,,,,,,, IIRC, the 308 turns 70 this year.
Click to expand...
Introduced in 1952
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
I remember it being called the T-48 when in development and that it has the distinction of being released as a commercial round before a military round.
 
Rick

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
fiver said:
you know,,,,,,,, IIRC, the 308 turns 70 this year.
Click to expand...
waco said:
Introduced in 1952
Click to expand...

70 years old, 1948. Winchester introduced it as a commercial cartridge in 1952, I don't know how long it had been experimented with before it's commercial introduction but could well have been 1948. The military had experimented with the 308 as a shorter cartridge which would function better in full auto's than the longer 06 since sometime after WWII. Congress approved it as the NATO round in 1955, it was standardized as 7.62x51 NATO in 1957 and production of M-14's began in early 1958. Congress cancelled the M-14 in 1963 with a total of 1,380,358 produced.
 
358156 hp

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
fiver said:
like 10 years after the cartridge.?
Click to expand...

1902, I think... I had a Colt 1905 45 ACP and fed it cast bullets only.

I believe the 45 ACP cartridge was originally named "automatic cartridge pistol" by John Browning. Colt had to put their name on it when they purchased the rights to the pistol.
 
RicinYakima

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
It is even early than that. When Browning made his first .32 auto (1900?), he sold it to the Belgians and was labeled as "7.62 Browning". When Colt got into the .32 pocket pistol market, they didn't want the Browning name, so came up with ".32 Automatic Colt Pistol" for sales everywhere but Europe. All European .32's are still named "7.62 Browning".
 
KHornet

KHornet

Well-Known Member
I believe it was in 1958 or 59 that I saw and fired, for me
the first M14 and the 308 Ctg. I believe it/they/whatever
were labeled T65 at least by USMC. Liked the rifle, wasn't
crazy about the short neck on the ctg, and disliked the long
mag hanging out underneath. I cut my teeth on a Garand
8 round clips, and what Patton said about it. Still not crazy
about the short neck on the 308, but have adjusted, and have
2 rifles in that ctg.

Paul
 
Pistolero

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
The reason I have a whole bunch of milsurps is because I love understanding first hand
what the tools of different armies in history were capable of, what their strengths and
weaknesses were.

Our version of the .45-70 is quite a bit superior to what Custer's troopers had. The had
copper cased ammo which was so soft as to be less reliable in extraction from dirty
chambers from firing a lot of BP ammo. The brass central fire (not centerfire) cartridges
were developed a bit later, and then the balloon head centerfire cases. Now we have
ultra reliable centerfire solid head cases. Big improvements, but the most important
was the shift from copper to brass.

Bill
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
KHornet said:
For some of us hooked on old ctgs and old Mil Surps, a major part of loading and shooting the old warhorse cartridges, is a history lesson. At least it is for me. I enjoy firearms nostalga.

Paul
Click to expand...

For a retired First Sergeant crowding 80, those are some humble words.

The arms of the US military from the SAA and Trapdoor to the 1911 and M14 can, have, and will serve anyone well in a number of capacities, not the least of which is an understanding and respect for our past and the men that got us here.
 
B

Bill

Active Member
Looking at a 300 savage, then invent the 308? I shoot and reload for both and they are almost the same thing.

Bill
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
The .300 Savage was very much looked at before inventing the .308. The machine guns needed a less abrupt shoulder angle, thicker case walls, and slightly beefier neck, so the .300 Savage was essentially modified to suit those requirements and replace the '06.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
look at the rounds the Browning machine gun was made in.[not the BAR]
the potato digger [1911 water cooled also] but I know it worked with both mauser rounds and rimmed cases like the 303.
that is a pretty adaptable platform.
I still haven't figured out why we didn't just neck the X57 case to 30 cal from the very beginning.
were we really that far behind?
we had already ripped off the rifle design and bought our previous rifles desgn from a European country
why not just go all in and modify the round slightly too.
 
oscarflytyer

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
lol! if I counted, I prob have more cartridges that are pre-1900 than I do post! Like 30-30, (soon to be) 38-55, 45-70, 6.5x55, 44-40, 45 Colt, 38 Special. Close but not quite, 44 SPC and 45 ACP, 300 Savage, 32 Win Special (1901), 30-06. I like the old stuff!
 
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