Origin of the NOE WFN bullet design

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
To my knowledge, Veral Smith of LBT originally developed the LFN, WFN, & WLN designs. Most of the LBT copies never seem to get the nose profile quite right though.
 
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JSH

Active Member
WFN and WLN have become a generic term. Kind of like Mauser or Springfield.
I can't say I agree with NOE's examples to what I am use too.
No idea who or whom came up with their design.
Jeff
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
My understanding is that a WFN has a certain percentage of bullet diameter as a meplat.
Veral is the guy who created the designs, coined the terms, and is THE man regarding them.
 
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Chris

Well-Known Member
I've got two LBT molds and I am fond of them. A .460 WFN and a .321 190 gr. LFN. Wonderful molds from back when he made them all custom (before his problems).

I honestly can find no fault with his bullet and nose design, as fine a mold as I have owned and they feed and shoot like a house afire. I want to buy more before he hangs it up.

My understanding is that Veral coined the terms WFN and LFN after he invented the design. Buy his book. He does not get enough credit for how he advanced knowledge of cast bullet shooting.
 

Rally Hess

Well-Known Member
Thanks much for the replies. I'm loving the WFN designs and it's obvious they were made for lever guns. I had a love affair with the KT style bullets but feed in a lever was a long way from practical for me.
 

JSH

Active Member
I have slept a fair bit since I spoke to Veral, quite a while back.
There is a balance of things that went into the LFN and WFN. This is over and above what most do, just making the nose wider or longer darn sure does not make it an "LBT" style.
There are several mass cast bullet makers out there that make what they call LBT. The last I knew to Verals knowledge he had never made a mold for them.
I am fortunate to have custom molds for both my FA's from Veral. Well worth the money.
If a mold is built around a specific chamber from him it may or may not shoot properly in other guns. I found this out when I started in on the 41 mag.
I may well part with a few Ruger wheel guns or some others and commission FA to build me a 41 mag. Then have a custom true LBT mold made.
I have WFN and LFN examples from NOE, they are great quality molds and a pleasure to use. I have other customs as well and they are also nice to use. All can be made to shoot, some better than others and easier.
Jeff
 
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358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Thanks much for the replies. I'm loving the WFN designs and it's obvious they were made for lever guns. I had a love affair with the KT style bullets but feed in a lever was a long way from practical for me.
Verals earliest work was with handgun designs, and all of his designs seemed to correct a real or perceived shortcoming in the other designs. Here is an article by one of the big name writers who "discovered" LBT. https://www.docdroid.net/umd6/september-1988.pdf
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
IMO if you look at a some of the old Belding and Mull designs you'll see where the basic idea for the WFN came from.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I'm not sure Veral Smith invented it (like Bret says), if you do your research you will come across quite a few earlier examples. However, Veral probably is the earliest and one of the few true authorities on the designs, and made them what they are, so in my mind he deserves much of the credit.

Someone who probably doesn't even register on the radar due to lack of publishing, but is also an authority on the WFN from an accuracy and hunting perspective, is James W. Miner.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
My take would be this. Others before Veral may have made bullets of a similar style and design but Veral gave them a common theme and and names. He made them well known and gave us a book worth every penny.

There are few truly unique, original ideas but we do tend to remember the people who made them popular and available to the masses.
 

Chris

Well-Known Member
Verals earliest work was with handgun designs, and all of his designs seemed to correct a real or perceived shortcoming in the other designs. Here is an article by one of the big name writers who "discovered" LBT. https://www.docdroid.net/umd6/september-1988.pdf

Thanks for posting that, I remember that article (long-term memory seems to be doing better than the short-term memory these days). That is what sent me off to LBT to buy my first custom mold.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Okay. I made it all up.

Sorry...


I'm not sure who that's directed at, but there are very few truly "new" designs out there. Most everything can be traced back to the pre-1900 era if you look around. Even the spitzer designs go back to the black powder days. Just as Henry Ford didn't "invent" the automobile and Microsoft didn't "invent" the computer (or Al Gore the internet!), people take ideas from the past and incorporate them into modern, successful designs. That takes nothing away from the guy that makes something work regardless of his not "inventing it". Sorry if anyones nose got bent.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I will also add that Veral may think he didn't make a mold for any commercial casters but it would be impossible to tell if he made one for one or not.
just about any mold out there can be adapted to a casting machine.
I right now have a brass MiHec 9mm mold in my master caster.
I'm pretty positive he has no clue it's there since I didn't even buy the mold from him.