Powder coat varieties

[Reloader762]

But those are imposters. That is the NOE version. I bet you prefer the "real" 358156 HP

They are, but they shoot great and expand well, but it's hard to beat the original. The bullet on the right was shot in a 38 snubby at +P velocity with the check left off and just a coat of Alox/JPW lube.


I always check my bullets after coating, I only had a problem getting some of the checks on when I tried to check and size with my Lee push through sizer, so I switched over to the RCBS Lube A Matic to seat checks and size the bullets. Also, using a good powder that just put a fine coat on the bullet using shake and bake instead of spraying the powder on so as not to get excess powder around the gas check shank took care of most of those issues as well.

Here are the Lee 185 gr. bullets sized with the checks installed.

 

[358156 hp]

It helps that you make your own checks. I still buy mine, and they always fit tightly for me. I suppose I could buy a flaring tool, but I'd like to make my own, and keep putting off buying the flaring tool becaue of that.

 

[Ian]

Reloader762, looks like you have the process perfected. Good idea using the beads.

 

[358156 hp]

Reloader762, looks like you have the process perfected. Good idea using the beads.

I thought it was a nice touch too. Especially when the closest source for airsoft pellets is across town, but there's a Walmart a block from work.

 

[fiver]

those dang BB's are expensive.
I thought they would be like 3-4$ for a bottle...wow.

 

[Ian]

L1A1Rocker special ordered some of the 24 gram?? super-heavy black BBs for us to try, and honestly if they're any better than the cheapo yellow ones a customer gave me to get rid of years ago (I don't even airsoft, but hey, they were free), then I can barely tell any difference. Always looking for a better mousetrap, I may give the beads a go.

 

[fiver]

I had no clue about different weights or colors or even how any of it worked the first time I gave it a go.
I powder coated bullets that were over sized to begin with.
I had a big box of them cast and didn't need more lube sized yet.
had no clue about BB color, I just found the bottle of glow in the dark ones the boy has had for years and threw a bunch of them in the cleanest most convenient plastic cup I found in the garage instead of going downstairs and getting a new one and a new lid out of the box.
harbor freight red cause they had it.
followed the cooking directions on the P/C and had a go at it.
I wore the nitrile gloves because I was getting powder on my hands as I was shaking the cup, they seemd like the right thing to do when standing everything on the tray.

my first go was with wax paper on the tray because I use it for pouring lube onto to cool it off.
the second batch was immediately followed up with parchment paper at the wife's suggestion, after watching me tear the wax paper apart making little paper gas checks in the process.

 

[Canuck Bob]

Wow, I've been studying coating ever since I bought some bullets recently! Included please find a link to an Eastwood Powder Clear Gloss reviewed by Loads of Bacon youtubber. It is a Poly TGIC but has no warnings or ratings for birth defects and Carcinogens. The MSDS is typical for their powders adding irritant notes for color pigments where applicable.

I recently crossed three milestones. I'm retired, in remission from bone marrow cancer, and obtained a Shooting Club membership (they are almost unobtanium around here) with two outstanding local ranges. The longest range is good to 500 metres. My shooting fun and volume is about to skyrocket finally.

I'm hoping my own cast bullets and powder coating can get me to accurate 175 grain plain base or gas checked bullets at full 303 Brit velocity, 2400 fps for me, to 300 yards. Gas checking is doable but adds .05 per bullet up here. Hornady Interlocs run .40 to .50 per bullet so GCs are affordable for me if they accomplish my goal.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/MSDS/MSDS00009/05258629-20110702.PDF

I have been happily wasting time on gun forums and shooting youtubes for years while restricted by treatment. This is the first time I recall the discussion regarding gunpowder reactions from nitro based powders and plastics. This forum continues to amaze me. A gas check would isolate the gunpowder from the poly base coating.

I have decent stocks of H4895, IMR4198, SR4759 with a few pounds of Lil' Gun, IMR4227, and Traillboss. Are any of these gunpowdersat high risk for this reaction?

 

[Ian]

The new-ish Hodgdon flake powders seem to be the worst (longshot, titegroup). I suggest you do some of your own testing at the earliest possible convenience to see if the powders you have will soften the poly coating.

TGIC is bad juju, but safe if handled properly and NEVER inhaled or ingested. Just because the SDS for the United States doesn't yet recognize it as a high-level carcinogen/mutagen, doesn't mean it isn't bad. In Europe the stuff is already being outlawed, but the corporate pull-peddlers and law jockeys here are keeping it quiet because the substance makes a superior coating. Do some research or just use extreme caution when handling TGIC-crosslinked powder.

 

[fiver]

good news is that 2 lbs of the powder does like 200000 bullets.
bad news is many of them will pull moisture in and they won't stick because of the ion change.
so you have to protect the powders from that.

I'm fairly convinced that not only does some gun powders stick to some of the coatings but it is the nitro content that is the cause.
now maybe some of the coatings they use as a flash suppressant also does the softening.

I'm confused about a batch comparison of BE-86 right now.
Hawk is showing a ton of powder clinging to one of his coated bullets, so much is clinging that other powder is starting to stick to the first coat.
meanwhile a much older batch of the powder I have doesn't even look the same and is not sticking to two different powders I have, and a third coated one that is a mix of the two.
my batch of powder is more a grey/silver color like [old?] 231, and his is a dark black and very consistent in size.

 

[Canuck Bob]

The new-ish Hodgdon flake powders seem to be the worst (longshot, titegroup). I suggest you do some of your own testing at the earliest possible convenience to see if the powders you have will soften the poly coating.

TGIC is bad juju, but safe if handled properly and NEVER inhaled or ingested. Just because the SDS for the United States doesn't yet recognize it as a high-level carcinogen/mutagen, doesn't mean it isn't bad. In Europe the stuff is already being outlawed, but the corporate pull-peddlers and law jockeys here are keeping it quiet because the substance makes a superior coating. Do some research or just use extreme caution when handling TGIC-crosslinked powder.

Ian, this issue about toxicity is important to me. I did not link that to suggest the stuff was safe only as a reference. I have bone marrow cancer and just entering remission after a decade of greulling therapy. My oncologist blames my long contact with industrial chemicals as a heavy equipment mechanic and then the oilpatch. I thank you for bringing this issue to light. An hour on youtube shows houses and shops seriously dusted with this stuff regardless of claims of careful handling. I was the guy who mocked safety as sissy crap and bragging about washing the grease off with gasoline. I look at my family now and regret my idiocy and arrogance. If anyone out there is still bulletproof please rethink that, cancer sucks. Bob

 

[Canuck Bob]

Regarding gunpowder it is amazing the varieties of source for common powders. It really concerns me that a lot of data for my old school powders predates current source of supply. IMR4227 can come from multi source factories, OEMs, countries and now hemispheres like the far east (Australia). All my powders seem to say Australian made. No wonder samples differ in look, volume, and structure. Some published data must reach back to Dupont source. The amazing part is that they mange well for consistencies but it really points out the importance of starting low on a new batch of gunpowder.

 

[Ian]

I have a theory about the latest powders produced in the US being less thoroughly washed than previous formulations. Reading somewhere in the recent past about the final water washes yielding a very expensive (disposal-wise) waste, it makes sense that this process would be reduced to a minimum and potentially leave more "active" solvent residues in the powder which can break down certain plastics. Some of the Hodgdon powders previously made in Australia are now being made in a Canadian plant and are slightly different in appearance and density, but are excellent in performance and don't seem to be very active on the polyester resins, leading me to think that at least the Universal that I have is being thoroughly washed there, while the powders being made in Florida (which are eating polyesters and polycarbonates with great appetite), are not. Still looking for confirmation on this, just going off of rumor and observations of product vs. location and the differences in regulations.

 

[Canuck Bob]

I didn't know we Canadians started making commercial powder again. Oh please, make another run or two of SR4759. We don't have industrial home grown factory ammo production here. Just military cartridges by an offshoot of General Dynamics I think.

I've decided to shelve coating and stick with traditional lubed gas check bullets for now. I visited a few sites and it seems if proper simple precautions are taken TGIC powder coat is safe at our extremely low usage and coverage per session. Besides coating is making used sizing tooling available and soon cheaper I hope.

One thing that is appealing is the smooth sided molds for slick coated cast bullets with higher BC for long range cast marksmanship. Reports are NOE and MP, probably everyone, are producing bullet molds designed for smooth sided coating. Coating is the new norm, time to stock up on checks or research a check tool!

 

[fiver]

I was thinking about the solvent wash thing too but didn't mention it in the earlier post.
I know some of the base stocks were changed in Australia made stuff and wonder just how much more it changed when it went to Canada.
I'm also pretty sure it was no coincidence that the great powder rush wasn't mostly or partially a pipeline supply problem, caused by a rush, and a production swap problem.

I know everyone said there was the same amount in the pipeline, but I have to throw the BS flag on that.
I know some off the beaten path barely carries powder [and it's 30+$ a lb at the best of times] places and I know they didn't order 1 lb at a time to restock the shelf.

 

[fiver]

I would for sure research those long slick sided bullets.
IMO they are fine for Paper Patching with Black powder and really not much else.

 

[Ian]

I would for sure research those long slick sided bullets.
IMO they are fine for Paper Patching with Black powder and really not much else.

Exactly.

 

[Gary]

I would for sure research those long slick sided bullets.
IMO they are fine for Paper Patching with Black powder and really not much else.

Why?

 

[Ian]

It's kind of hard to explain that in 5,000 words or less. Maybe Fiver can. It has to do with metal displacement and sizing diameters. BP slicks are sized smaller than bore and patched to bore size (not groove) so they can handle throat fouling and still chamber, yet bump to obturate the bore. Smokeless doesn't work that way, has to be groove or bigger to start with and squeeze down to maintain obturation, or in the case of PP where bullets have to be sized ~.001" larger than bore diameter, has to have room for displacement or the core will get overly deformed and won't shoot straight. Also, the patch bites grooved bullets better with smokeless and doesn't suffer the chronic patch failure syndrome that slicks do.

 

[fiver]

well your squishing lead and cutting into the surface.
when you impress the rifling the lead has to move somewhere.
it can't make the barrel bigger so it has to flow back or forward.
since it's going forward back is the only direction left for it to go.
there are no grooves to interrupt or take up the metal movement so it has to go to the base.