Quickload software

[hornetguy]

Do any of you use this? If so, can you tell me if it can calculate approximate chamber pressures simply by caliber/powder charge/bullet weight?

I have some loads that are above the newer, lower SAAMI specs for .357, but should be below the CIP specs, but I cannot find any data to verify it.

I suppose as a last resort I could contact the powder manufacturer, but I'm afraid they will just tell me "that charge is above the SAAMI spec" and not give me an answer.

 

[hornetguy]

Interestingly, I just called Hodgdon and talked to one of their techs... he looked at data from the Lyman manual that listed almost up to what I had loaded, and gave me the CUP readings on it.
It shows that I'm right at the upper edge for being "in spec".... a place that I normally do NOT like to operate in.
I'm just trying to decide if it will be safe to shoot these 60 rounds, never to return there again, or if I need to spend a few hours whacking away with my inertia bullet puller.
These loads are at the upper end of the older .357 data, so it's not as if they are anywhere near "proof" loads.
I would feel better about it if I had a Blackhawk to fire these in, instead of a model 13 Smith, but I think it should be ok.

 

[Michael]

QuickLoad will do that. Keep in mind that is not absolute, it is all mathematical estimates, usually it is pretty close, other times not so much and does not replace or is substitute for published manufactures data.
A steady diet of heavy/factory stuff will loosen things up over time as you are likely aware. Have you hand any extraction issues with them? Published load data from a load manual is normally reliable, but prudence in reloading is always wise, following the normal guidelines, watching for pressure indications. Could also compare data from other manuals and what they show. If they all show under max and cases extract without any issues likely OK, but in the end it is your decission. Certainly cannot go wrong by pulling the down, aside from that wack carpel wack tunnel wack thing.

 

[hornetguy]

aside from that wack carpel wack tunnel wack thing.

Yep.... I was hoping to avoid that. I fired a few of these in my Rossi levergun, but was getting some bulged brass... which I find is fairly common with those rifles. They extracted and loaded fine, just had bulges after firing.
I thought about working them through the model 13.... I don't think 60 or so will hurt the gun. I certainly don't plan to load that hot for it, or the Rossi, again. Medium loads will work just fine for me...

I might just have to spring for the Quickload purchase.... I'm sure I will find several uses for it, once I "learn" it....

 

[Rockydoc]

There is more to it than just caliber/powder charge/bullet weight. Seating the bullet just a few thousandths deeper in the case can increase the chamber pressure many thousands of pounds. So you have to enter the bullet dimension, how deep it is seated, etc. If a model 13 is a j-frame, and I think it is, you could certainly damage that revolver with those loads.
Two cents, please.

 

[hornetguy]

There is more to it than just caliber/powder charge/bullet weight. Seating the bullet just a few thousandths deeper in the case can increase the chamber pressure many thousands of pounds. So you have to enter the bullet dimension, how deep it is seated, etc. If a model 13 is a j-frame, and I think it is, you could certainly damage that revolver with those loads.
Two cents, please.

thanks for the reply... the model 13 is a K frame, just like the model 19/66 etc...

I just am not familiar with all the "buttons" you can push to arrive at your pressure result. Does it allow you to enter how deeply the bullet will go into the case? That would be a good thing, since all those things add up to arrive at the total pressure.

The K frames were designed for full power (at the time) 357 loads.... and those loads were pretty stout. I think the issue came up with the 125 gr bullet with large loads of slow burning powder. Incidents of forcing cone cracks were seen. Most of what I've read indicates that staying away from the 125 gr barn burners will eliminate 95% of any issues with "magnum loads" in the K frames.
Most reports state that firing full house magnum loads can, over time, loosen the frame... most people indicate that time is more in the "years" category than "days" or "months".
All of this leads me to believe that firing these 60 rounds should not damage my model 13 in any way.... am I off base in thinking that?

 

[Rockydoc]

With Quick Load the more data input the more accurate the prediction. Straight wall revolver cartridges are particularly sensitive to the amount of space the powder has to burn in.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

thanks for the reply... the model 13 is a K frame, just like the model 19/66 etc...

I just am not familiar with all the "buttons" you can push to arrive at your pressure result. Does it allow you to enter how deeply the bullet will go into the case? That would be a good thing, since all those things add up to arrive at the total pressure.

The K frames were designed for full power (at the time) 357 loads.... and those loads were pretty stout. I think the issue came up with the 125 gr bullet with large loads of slow burning powder. Incidents of forcing cone cracks were seen. Most of what I've read indicates that staying away from the 125 gr barn burners will eliminate 95% of any issues with "magnum loads" in the K frames.
Most reports state that firing full house magnum loads can, over time, loosen the frame... most people indicate that time is more in the "years" category than "days" or "months".
All of this leads me to believe that firing these 60 rounds should not damage my model 13 in any way.... am I off base in thinking that?

The magnum K-frames (models 13, 19, 65, 66,) were designed for 357 Magnum loads, meaning the gun will not blow up when fed ammunition within SAAMI specs. However, there's a difference between catastrophic failure and just plain ol’ damage from heavy use.

Regardless of the design or changes in SAAMI limits, actual experience has shown that long term use of magnums in those platforms will, at the very least, loosen the guns up. YES, the 110 and 125 grain bullets (read that as the short bullets) were the worst offenders. The 158gr bullets were not as bad, but a steady diet of those would still eventually lead to things getting beat up. That doesn’t mean a few magnum loads will harm the gun but if you shoot thousands of them, you can expect to pay the price eventually. The 158 grain lead bullets are certainly not in the same category as the 125 grain bullets when it comes to wear.

I’ve seen cracked forcing cones, stretched frames, battered ejector stars and lots of cylinder end shake on magnum K-frames. I have a few magnum K-frames, and I like them but you must understand their limitations.

So, limited use of 158 gr magnum loads that are within SAAMI limits are fine. What constitutes “limited use” is a little fuzzy. Some people shoot more than others and one person’s definition will not match another. A person that shoots 100 rounds per year may go on for many years before he reaches the round count of a person that shoots 300 rounds a week.

 

[BudHyett]

QuickLoad is for reference, it works very well. However, it is for reference. I like it because it works with cast bullets very well. I also downloaded the NOE supplement that gives the cast bullet ballistic coefficient.

Shooting breech-seated bullets, I set the seating depth -.060 for researching comparable loads. The resultant QuickLoad output matches the trajectory I see in matches. Therefore, I think it is a good tool.

 

[Ian]

Quickload is a very capable thermodynamic modeling program with the capacity to accept very detailed inputs. I have found it invaluable for modeling pressure curves in outside-the-box situations and for finding port pressure values in semi-automatic rifles. Much of the time I find under three percent difference between predicted velocity and chronographed velocity which is the only value I can measure myself. In some instances I have had some nasty surprises with one powder while similar ones (all else same) were right on predictions. It's a great program but don't ever get complacent with it or start to trust it too much. Always "sanity check" modeled data against any and all available resources before trying out a new load.

 

[hornetguy]

Thank you all for the inputs... I will likely buy the software, just to have another tool available.
I really just sort of wanted a "sanity check" before I send these 60 loads down the barrel. It sounds like, from here, and from the tech at Hodgdon that these should be safe, in that they won't blow up a gun, but I wouldn't load any more at that level.
I like AA #9, and will likely use it at a more moderate level for the model 13. For the Rossi levergun, I think I'll try to stay at the lower end of .357 specs to avoid the case bulges.
For those interested, I loaded 14.0 gr behind a powder coated 158gr bullet, using magnum primers.
One load book listed 14.2 (I think) as the max for a 150gr cast, and about 13.7 or so for the 158gr.
For the current SAAMI specs of 35,000 psi, they list around 12.4 gr as maximum.

 

[Ian]

The powder coat changes the pressure curve a bit but not the peak pressure all that much. Basically it moves the pressure peak point down the barrel a bit which can be bad for Smiffs which have a tendency to get bulged barrels just ahead of the frame.

 

[Michael]

As others have mentioned, QuickLoad is a useful tool, I like it as well. There is so much in there that learning all of the in and outs that some have said it could almost be a two semester college coarse. Use in conjunction with optimal barrel time (nodes), http://www.the-long-family.com/optimal barrel time.htm. I have found that usually a load falls into place within +/- 1.0gr-ish of what QL predicts, often even within +/- 0.5gr.

 

[Michael]

Hi again. You did not mention what powder you were using, but yourpost/query came to mind after I finished reading this:

The .38 Keith Hollow Point – the Ideal 358439 By Glen E. Fryxell

From the pages of The IHMSA News, Shooting sports, hand gun, ammo, cartridges, xp 100, reloading, firearm, cast bullet, bullet casting and more information articles

www.lasc.us

There is some info about 1/2 - 2/3 the way through that might be of interest.

 

[hornetguy]

On these loads, I used AA #9 @ 14.0gr, CCI mag primer, 158gr coated bullet.

 

[Hawk]

I have a large supply of Remington 1-1/2 spp that I would like to use in a 9mm with a MH 125 grain HP and 4.0 grains of Red Dot.
I understand the primers are for low pressure loads
What other info would I need to provide for one of you generous fellows to tell what approximate pressures that would generate?

 

[Snakeoil]

Go download Gordon's Reloading Tool and you can run the numbers yourself.

 

[Hawk]

Thanks!