Red Dust

L

longhunter

Member
I opened an 8ib can of IMR 4064 today.
Smelled good. but when I poured it in to my powder measure I had red dust?
Question: Has the powder gone bad?
Thanks,
Jon
 
RicinYakima

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Is it a metal can? Maybe. Is it a plastic jug? Probably. It is now fertilizer.

DuPont had tons of powder that was unsellable in the 1980's. The plan was to use it for feedstock and wash the rest of the acids out of it. When IMR bought the company, they packaged and sold it.

FWIW
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Yep, I lost a four-pounder of I4198 due to that. I thought it was rust but it was red oxide pigment colored, not reddish brown rust colored. The can was shiny inside when I poured all the powder out to inspect things.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
I had a red dust situation about a dozen years ago when I bought 3 lbs of '4831' that came in very old dupont steel cans (they all were rusty inside), no labeling on can's except Dupont logo and hand written 4831 in a grease marker...from 1950s or 1960s I'm guessing?
I assumed the red dust was rust. I separated the red dust (by winnowing) from the 4831, blended the 3 lbs, and put the powder in a plastic gunpowder container. I loaded up some 30-06 ammo with it, and tested it with a chrono...results were good. About once a year, I open that jug and check it out. Still seems good a decade later, no red dust.
 
Rick H

Rick H

Well-Known Member
I had a new 1lb can of H4198 get full of red dust and rust inside the can after about a year of opening it. Expensive fertilizer.
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
JonB said:
I had a red dust situation about a dozen years ago when I bought 3 lbs of '4831' that came in very old dupont steel cans (they all were rusty inside), no labeling on can's except Dupont logo and hand written 4831 in a grease marker...from 1950s or 1960s I'm guessing?
I assumed the red dust was rust. I separated the red dust (by winnowing) from the 4831, blended the 3 lbs, and put the powder in a plastic gunpowder container. I loaded up some 30-06 ammo with it, and tested it with a chrono...results were good. About once a year, I open that jug and check it out. Still seems good a decade later, no red dust.
Click to expand...
I did the same with some 3031. Red dust, obvious can degradation. I changed to a plastic 3031 bottle and "air sifted" out most of red dust.

Loaded a few to test. Had zero issues and good results.

Fertilizer is probably best decision. But...

CW
 
3

300BLK

Well-Known Member
I had some sealed cans of IMR 4198 that had some red dust in them. The powder still smelled like ether, and the cans were rusty on the inside, so I tried it in cast 223 loads. Its all gone with no pressure excursions, and excellent accuracy.
 
D

dale2242

Well-Known Member
300BLK said:
See thread above.
Click to expand...
If the powder has red dust and no bad odor the powder is "probably"
still good and the inside of the can is creating the red dust.
Here is why I say that:
Typically when powder goes bad you get red dust and/or an acrid smell.
I had a metal can of 7828 that had red dust in the powder but no bad smell.
I looked carefully at the inside of the can and saw that it was rusty.
I decided to try an experiment to see if the powder was going bad or if the red dust was coming from the can itself.
I poured the powder slowly through the light breeze coming from a slowly turning 12" fan .
I poured it back and forth from one container to the other until there was no longer any red dust coming from the powder.
I then placed the powder in a plastic container so that I could tell if the dust was coming from the metal in the can or the powder itself.
It still has no acrid odor and is not developing red dust.
This by no means a scientific experiment but brings an interesting conclusion.
Why the inside of the can was rusting, I have no idea.
There must be some chemical reaction between the metal and the powder.
Is that a bad thing? I don't know.
Your mileage may vary.
Use your own judgement.
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
To me bad oder changes things as thats a second sign of degradation and possible chemical changes.

If I had powder with red dust AND bad odors... Its going on the lawn.

CW
 
P

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Here are my reservations, and please bear with me.

I totally understand that the red dust could be rust if the container is steel (tin cans aren’t really tin). I also understand the value of 8lbs of IMR 4064 and the desire to save it.

However, I have my doubts about the inner walls of the container rusting to the point that the rust would migrate throughout the powder without vigorously shaking the can first. So, if red dust is evident when you gently pour out some powder, my guess is that is a sign the powder is degrading and not simply some rust from the can.

My concerns would be producing unreliable or inconsistent ammunition with that powder. I wouldn’t want to miss that critical shot due to some inconsistent combustion or even worse, suffer a squib load that takes the gun out of action until the bore is cleared. With the price of primers compared to the original cost of that powder (in a metal can for crying out loud!), I don’t think you would be losing much by tossing it out.

Smokeless powder has great shelf life when stored properly and I wouldn’t be concerned about the safety of the powder, but I would be concerned about the usefulness of that powder.

And by the way, how long ago was IMR 4064 sold in metal cans?
 
Tomme boy

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
I had a can of imr4895 that had red dust. In the can was shiny so I sifted it in a SS colander and blew it off with a fan as I sifted it. Shot the whole can without issue. And I chronoed it and it was within 20fps of the other stuff I had so that was close enough for a lot difference. It also smelled the same as the other powder I had. And that was why I tried it.

I also tried it by loading just a few and chronoed it. After that I loaded it all up and shot it.
 
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