Reviving A 1997 Bush Master Varminter 223 - Iron Sights to Scope

[quicksylver]

Well ...where to begin..quite a journey....for me anyways.

Let's start by saying that I have had a relationship with these that have gone from hot to cold to cool and back around and around..

I like so many of my friends went through the 1903's. '03A3's, M1 Garands, M1A's and finially the AR's at our Military shoots...all produced exceptional accuracy when tuned properly and pet loads were used...

The AR however was much easier to use , reload and shoot and then there were all those cool parts you could add on....

My experience with them first occurred when they became commercially available in the late 60's early 70's..I bought three God knows why...

They were sure something different...but out side of blowing off cheap ammo there really was no use for them..MO....besides they didn't have wood stocks..and that pencil barrel..give me a break...and on top of that all three of mine eventully went full auto..all by themselves...there's quality parts for you..

So fast forward to the 90's for a brief visit..Dan decides getting pushed around by a M1A while in the prone postion ,in August wasn't as much fun as it used to be...

Dan's friends then made it very uncomfortable not to switch to an AR at the shoots...so I bought two

One Match Legal, one I could use for Matches and target shooting...both with iron sights...

After a couple of years shooting the two I decided to get rid of the one in straight military configuration as I wasn't shooting as well as I used to and the Varminter showed a potential for increased accuracy as well as having a flat top for a scope....

Fast forward another 20 years ..Dan has now decided that maybe he should try following through with the plans he had for the rifle..but... yup the but..I couldn't get used to scopes...uuuugh...

HOWEVER...because of my friend Ian's tutoring and flat out insistence at times..I got a new scope..cheap ($205.00 shipped)...I set the scope up according to Ian's instructions and those that were in an article he forwarded to me..BOY I really didn't know much about using scopes..

This time I set the diopter so as to get the best picture possible of the reticle.. I then set the eye relief by adjusting the position of the scope while at the bench...finial adjustment was made with the AO , this time for 100 yds..WHAT A DIFFERENCE.. I am now completely comfortable at the bench..no squirming around , full view through the scope as soon as I put my head down on the stock..everything as clear as a bell ..WOW...!!

I had loaded up 30 rounds and brought those with me just in case things went well..they did so I got an opportunity to shoot...now I've never gone through 30 rounds and come out feeling like I could take on 30 more..usually just the opposite by the 18th round I'm usually just wasting ammo ..but not today..

The ammo I had loaded was a mix of various powder charges and AOL..I won't bother you further with the out come of those various loads..but I will show you pictures of the first three rounds on paper and the last five of the thirty..finally fairly decent accuracy from beginning to end...thanks Ian...

 

[Ian]

That's great, Dan! There's a small but critical learning curve to optics, but glass should always work for YOU, not the other way around. I'm happy that the problem you have always had with glass was this simple to solve, and now you can continue to enjoy shooting even if the light isn't just perfect on the target backer.

I'm the guy who gets a ration of %$(* from the "old salts" at the range for daring to put a scope on my M1A, or on my Marlin leverguns, but my eyes are about 25 years older than the rest of me due to the ravages of retinal disease and sometimes a person has to do what they have to do to continue enjoying the sport. Now I'm getting presbyopia pretty bad and cannot see the FRONT sight on an AR-15 rifle clearly (much less a carbine), so even the aperture/post setup is getting neigh impossible to use on some rifles. All hail the holographic sight and rifle scope! Soon my pistols will all need reflex sights, sighh........

 

[quicksylver]

Ian....I love my drawer of gagets..extra red dots for my Pardini...stick on adjustable aperature for glasses when i am shooting my handguns. ..etc...

I am going to "fix" the other scopes..but I am going to continue using the iron sights as long as I can...it's conforming to know that scope ARE an option...

Strange thing is my groups usung scopes are only slightly better than those with iron sights ..now anyways...maybe that will change..thanks again...Dan

 

[Ian]

Not many people seem to ever truly master iron sights. I'm one of them who certainly hasn't. Those that have mastered irons are often not at much of a disadvantage to an average person using optics, except in low light or low contrast situations. Bottom line is use your gadgets as much as you need to to help get the most out of what you enjoy doing.

 

[quicksylver]

Ian that is my intention..but boy I sure stand out at the range these days..

 

[fiver]

that straight line recoil probably doesn't hurt anything either.
bump, bump, bump.

get control of the handle sticking out the bottom there [I bench shoot mine with both hands on the grip like a handgun] and some better shoulder contact and I bet you tighten those groups up.

50gr Hornady V-max's come in 250 count boxes for cheap and shoot well.
the sierra 63gr [looks like a RN] fits the 5.56 throat and will shoot waaay beyond what you'd think it would by looking at it.
those are my 2 favorites for when I'm forced to buy bullets.
I like the 63gr so much I had a swage die modified to mimic it so I can make my own.

 

[quicksylver]

Hey ..Fiver...I do want to try the 50 v max..I am running low I only have 1700 of the Speers....

My buddy uses a two handed grip as well but one hand on the grippy thing and the other on the mag...I don't know where he thinks it's going to go...but to each his own..

My powder,primers and bullets are 20 yrs old..some newer components might help too..

 

[quicksylver]

BTW..all my new groups are pretty much twice as high as they are wide..that's why i'm thinking old powder /primer issues..

 

[Ian]

....or the two hands on the grippy thing.

Aside from my Colt, all my ARs are built on polymer lowers. I like finishing them myself and love how snug they fit and lightweight they are. The big drawback, however, is shooting from a bench at long range. It is difficult to keep groups from stringing vertically because the polymer receiver tube ring has some flex to it, and must be "preloaded" a little. If I don't pull the rifle into my shoulder with exactly the same pressure each shot, the rifle flexes more or less than the previous shot and it sure does show up at 200 yards. Even at 100 with subsonic 300 Blackout (more recoil than .223, and much more barrel time). Another thing to look at is weak or reduced-power hammer springs causing erratic primer ignition with hard, military primers, or even CCI SR. I've found my Colt, with a wedge in it, is much less prone to the vertical, but it still will show up if I let it. Fiver's method of two hands pulling back on the rifle works well for me and that's how I shoot an AR from bags now.

 

[Brad]

If you want an AR to carry then light weight is a good thing.
If you want one to shoot then weight is a good thing. Mine has enough to lead in it to push 13 pounds in an NRA service rifle.

 

[quicksylver]

Ya ..I passed on a couple of trap sessions to fill mine up as well..I also use wedges ..but again they are 20 yrs old..and I have a little slop now..I no longer have to force the upper into the lower..

If I can get some rounds loaded in will try the two handed thing tomorrow..

Just came back from weight sorting the Speers. .why not..???..out of 100..all most 50 percent are 52.2..the remainder split between 52,52.1 and 52.3...

 

[fiver]

I complain about the brass deflector on mine..
I carry mine for chuck hunting so have a balance between weight and not weight. [nothing added]
in the field I use rocks and stuff for support [sometimes the truck window] and it seems to not affect the p.o.I.
because I use the pull in method there too.

I have the same type front tube and stock set-up [except it's a soft Hogue] so the grip section on the front has the same slide on different surfaces.

 

[Ian]

Fiver, they make "sporter" uppers with clean sides, you know.....

I kinda like the brass deflectors, especially since they put the ejection port on the wrong side (I know, I know, quite bellyaching and get a Stag...)

 

[fiver]

yeah..
I should have snagged that purple anodized stripped lower back when I seen it.
I just knew that if I did I would still be looking for one and Littlegirl would have built herself another AR.
I guess I could just turn the rifle over too, but I never learned to carry one right side up in the 10 years I packed one around all day every day.

 

[Brad]

Watch the 52 HPBTs. I can load them to feed from the magazine and still jam into the lands enough to keep the bolt from locking up.

 

[freebullet]

Well I'm glad it's coming around for you , Dan.

The single best improvement I've made to an ar is a jard trigger. At a clean crisp 2 lb it is phenomenal.

Fwiw, mine loves 40gr nosler hpfb & 69gr smk's.

 

[freebullet]

They make them little rubber doodads you can put under the rear take down pin hole. If you shave them you can get a no wobble fit across various receiver sets.

 

[Pistolero]

Good shooting! Isn't it fun to learn new things?

Well, "everybody knows" that those chromed barrels won't shoot accurately......
Doncha wish you had pulled that thing out a few years ago, now that you know what it can do?

Looks good. Glad Ian helped you with the intricacies of scope setups. I like both scopes and irons,
although the regular irons won't really work for me since I got my new fixed focus eyes.
I can still use peep sights well, though. It could be worse.

Folks who haven't fiddled with ARs much are really (sometimes impossibly) skeptical that they will
shoot accurately, some just refuse to believe it. I always assumed they were bullet hoses until
I borrowed a Colt HBAR from a friend back in the middle 80s. HOLY COW! I shot a tiny iron sight
group with it from the bench, first try. Pushed out to 200 and did it again! I offered to buy the rifle,
but he didn't want to sell then. About a year later, he needed money and I still have that rifle in my
gun safe, with many more since. That one taught me to run the sights and dope the wind in a few years
of High Power. Once shot a 100-7X on the first string at 500 yds, stock HBAR with 80 gr Sierra handloads.
A few years before that I didn't understand that ANYONE could shoot a group like that off of a sling at
500, let alone me. Of course blew it out to 198-8X for the whole stage, but I was still tickled pink....high
water mark on my NRA HP career. But I learned that ARs can shoot.

ARs with good bbls will really shoot, given decent ammo. IME, even middling quality pencil barrels with
midlength handguards will shoot 1.5" or better at 100 with ordinary ammo, and about 1" with good ammo.
Heavier barrels will shoot much better, as you have shown.



Bill

 

[quicksylver]

Well A hearty thanks to all !!!..it looks like I've got reacquainted with an old friend and made a new one...the AR project, I feel comfortable in saying, has come to fruition after close to 20 yrs..
and as I said thanks to help from you all using a scope has become somewhat of a joy...

I finally got the scope set up properly..no twisting and squirming to get a good sight picture ..just pull the butt stock to my solder lay my cheek down open my eyes and there it is..!!

Now the trigger feels as if it has shed two pounds...a bonus for sure...

The only thing left to do was clean it..it's been awhile to say the least..my jar of JB Bore Paste arrived last week so I immediately went to work with it (VERY GENTLY)..after following the instructions it took close to about 20 patches to get one that was what I considered clean enough.....one point here ....this chrome lined barrel has never produced any blue coloring when using copper solvent...but be that as it may ...most of the accumulated grunge was gone..

It's been a little wet this week to say the least, but today although foggy presented an opportunity to foul the bore and maybe try for an honest group.

I tried two of my favorite loads...here are the targets ..fog be darned..some comfortable shooting..."FINALLY"...Still can't seem to leave the range with out that pesky flier...

Foulers...

Todays' "Honest Group"...

 

[freebullet]

Well done!

When it all comes together it becomes quite a joy to shoot.