Savage Model 99

Ian

Notorious member
This rifle was in my FIL's estate, no idea of the history or how he came into it. By the SN it appears to have been made in 1908 or 1909 (depending on whose records are referenced). Caliber is .30-30 Winchester. It appears to have been refinished at some point, both wood and metal, but I can't be sure. My clues to the refinish are the SN being heavily buffed in one spot, taking one digit down to about half its original depth. There are runs in the finish, it appears to be varnish of some sort, and there's a large chip missing behind the tang which has been varnished over. The front sight blade looks like it was made out of a nickel, hammered out and soldered into the groove in the original (?) base.

Savage 99.jpg

The bore is a sewer pipe and has been cleaned to death with a steel rod, almost no rifling is left in the muzzle end, but most of the rifling shape is present in the remainder of the bore, including right up to the end of the chamber (no ball seat cut). The action is very positive and tight, the magazine works and the counter is properly timed. Headspace is spot-on and the chamber is good. I shot about 20 rounds of very light, plain-based cast bullet loads through it (about 1050 fps loads) and it printed a respectable 3" group at 50 yards once I learned to aim almost a full two feet low and 6" to the left.

My question is what to do with the poor thing, fix it up or leave it alone? This is my first experience with the Savage 99, and I personally think they're ugly, awkward, and poorly proportioned, although after actually shooting this one it is starting to grow on me a bit. In its present condition we don't want to sell it, but it doesn't appear to be worth fixing to sell. I'm leaning toward buying it from the estate and re-barreling it, re-stocking it, and refinishing the receiver in an acid case-color, but a blank, reamer, and floating reamer holder add up to a lot of money, and I still would need at the least a tang sight to be able to shoot it (no scope base holes) with my eye condition. I'm pretty sure I can fix it up without it being a total "Bubba" job, but before I start down that road, some opinions from those more familiar with these rifles than me would be appreciated. A lot of folks seem pretty passionate about these old rifles and may have a better idea of what route I should take.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Personally, I would consider a rebore to .32 Win Spl, or the wildcat .35/30/30. The magazine spool is the limiting factor, as they are not interchangeable. Repair the wood and refinish. I sorry it doesn't appeal to you, as I think they are the nicest proportioned and most attractive of all lever actions ever made (as long as they aren't scoped!).
 

Ian

Notorious member
I had actually considered the 7x30 Waters as a first choice, always wanted one since I was a kid (no practical reason other than he was one of my favorite gun writers), but that would be a re-barrel. If it will clean up, boring to the .32 would be the most practical since everything but the bore and the sights is in very good working condition and only going to .32 probably wouldn't require any magazine modifications. Going to .35 with that pencil barrel may have other problems. Has anyone done a .338-30?
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
the 32 win will have all the thump you want.
you can easily shove cast along in it far enough you will back the load down.
bonus would be the ability to shoot 150gr Hornady spire points for the 8mauser if the need should arise, if you specify the correct throat, neck dimensions, and twist rate.
plus factory ammo would still work.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Depends entirely on how much you want to keep the original bbl, it would seem. .32 Win Spl is definite option,
.35 Rem with a setback, if you knew someone handy with a lathe, and had it rebored. :rolleyes:
.300 Sav is a great round, but would require a liner or a new bbl.

I'd think hard about a new bbl and properly refinishing the stock. Old subpar work doesn't get much
respect from me just because it is old, but you may see it differently. Send the wood to Ben for his magic,
rebbl to .300 Sav. Your FIL would probably be tickled pink.

Just happened to wonder if the rimmed bolt face/extractor can work with the rimless .300 Sav?

Bill
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
As far as heating things up cartridge-wise, it depends entirely on the exact model you have. The older 99's, especially the ones with the square at the rear of the bolt, aren't good ones for things like the 300 or 250. For the high intensity rounds you want a later example from the period after they started to be cataloged, something from the 20's at least and later would be betterThe magazine will also limit your choices unless you can find a proper for the cartridge example, ie- the 38-55 will give issues with a 25-35 spool. That being said, one option that retains the original barrel is to counter bore the muzzle back to half-way decent rifling. With a decent pilot and reamer you could go back 6-12". It's no different than counter boring any muzzle really, just more tool shank and chips to deal with. Beyond that, lining is an option too. Rebarreling is fine, but you need a smith that will match the contour. Another option is to watch Ebay and the gun auction sites for a used barrel. There are a a couple of guys on Ebay that seem to have decent examples on a fairly regular basis.

As far as the 99 itself, it is IMO the finest, sleekest, nicest to handle lever gun ever produced. I still kick myself for passing on the 99's I didn't get when I could have, especially a half octagon 30WCF. Very nice rifles. Far, far ahead of anything else in it's class in every way.
 

quicksylver

Well-Known Member
The only limiting factor here is the cost of the work...relining and reboring are definitely options....but once done you still have the stock to contend with..you said it has the ever present chip or crack behind the tang...a good 25-30% have that...the stocks are serial numbered to the gun so changing that would further depreciate it's value.. .along with what's already been done to it..
IMO...I would just try sizing some bullets lager and see how that goes....

The 99's are my favorite guns...the little 30-30 carbines are just a joy...

You might want to again try some larger diameter bullets and if you get a little better groups ,invest in a second generation tang site and just enjoy it as it is..lots of history there..
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
Love 99s. If it were mine, been refinished already, AND shot out, it would go to JES Rebore and grow up to be a 38-55 and I would never look back.

BFO - Ian, I am SURE you are right about the 30-30 caliber. But, based on the age, not a chance it is a 303 Savage is it?!? And/or, if shot out, maybe use 311/312 bullets?
 
F

freebullet

Guest
Just held one of these for the first time. It was a hideous blonde wood 308. The rifle felt a little akward, but well built for sure. I have zero ideas on it.
 

Ian

Notorious member
The barrel is original as far as I can tell, it's marked "30-30", and chambers and fires .30-30 cartridges, so I'm fairly certain that's what it is.

The barrel isn't shot out, it's rusted out. I have another Utica-made Savage, a 219, with a pitted barrel, but it's like 5% pits and the rest clean, shiny metal and shoots cast bullets like a laser beam. This model 99's barrel has no shiny, just a rough mass of pits and land have little sharpness remaining. I couldn't get a good picture of the chamber end of the rifling, but it looks just the same as in this photo. The chamber is in really good shape though, even the neck portion. I'll shoot it some more before making a decision on what to do. I'd rather put a new barrel on it than replace it with a correct, factory take-off barrel. I'm sure that given enough time I can match the profile with my lathe. The more I think about it, the more a 7x30 barrel and some fresh wood appeals to me, but a rebore to .32 is likely the cheaper option IF I can get JES to do it for me. I may have to try and get the barrel off to send to him. The rotary magazine would be perfect for pointy bullets with high BC :)

Savage 99 bore.jpg

Thanks for the ideas and info, much appreciated. I've determined to at least give the old '99 a fair shake for once and see how I really feel about it other than looks.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
Ian try running about 20 paper patched bullets down the barrel.
bright white printer paper wrapped.
 

Intheshop

Banned
Always admired the 99's.On the chipped stock issues.... Does a very tidy bed job between butt section and receiver make sense?It's an accepted procedure on vintage shotguns.Very carefully,no bubba's.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Love 99s. If it were mine, been refinished already, AND shot out, it would go to JES Rebore and grow up to be a 38-55 and I would never look back.

BFO - Ian, I am SURE you are right about the 30-30 caliber. But, based on the age, not a chance it is a 303 Savage is it?!? And/or, if shot out, maybe use 311/312 bullets?

The 303 Savage is nominally 30 cal, not 311. Not sure if that's what you meant, but there it is.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Ian, if it is an older 99, especially if the rear of the bolt is square and not rounded, I'd rethink that 7x30 idea. On a later model from when the 250 and 300 were cataloged, something from the 40's for example, by all means. As far as taking the barrel off, not a huge deal on most 99's. Just make sure the 'smith gets his wrench on the recv'r over the barrel shank and not over the magazine area. I buggered up a decent 99 by engaging my hands before my head doing that.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
the 303's were a 308 barrel but utilized a 311 diameter bullet.
the extra diameter gave a bit more pressure and a bit more velocity.
this allowed the use of a 190gr bullet versus the 150-170 Winchester offered at just a titch more velocity.
duplicating the 30-30 with another round by a different name would have been folly [which is what the 303 was doing initially] so some creative advertising and a slight re-work of the load details was necessary,
Savage knew 'velocity sells' even back at the turn of the last century.
 
A

AMTom

Guest
The 99 was briefly made in 375 Winchester, so the barrel is likely not too slim for the 38-55 if you were so inclined.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Bret, it is the older action, pre-cocking-indicator, with square bolt. The more I read on the 7-30 it may not fit the magazine as well as I'd hoped anyway. So right now I'm looking at rebarrel in original caliber or bore/chamber to .32 Special.

I'm gonna sneak out to the shop here in a minute while wifey and baby are asleep and start off with a re-crown. I like the clay paper patch idea, it's my go-to fix for a brand-new barrel that has rifling burrs in it (hand-lapping is for the birds).
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
the 303's were a 308 barrel but utilized a 311 diameter bullet.
the extra diameter gave a bit more pressure and a bit more velocity.
this allowed the use of a 190gr bullet versus the 150-170 Winchester offered at just a titch more velocity.
duplicating the 30-30 with another round by a different name would have been folly [which is what the 303 was doing initially] so some creative advertising and a slight re-work of the load details was necessary,
Savage knew 'velocity sells' even back at the turn of the last century.

Okay, I'm going from memory after researching this heavily 14-16 years ago. SOME 303 factory ammo MAY have been made with .311 bullets, but they appear to have been few and far between and I've never spoken to or corresponded with anyone that ever had an example in hand. As far as the 30-30 goes, some of the early loadings used a 180 gr bullet (and some of the early 303 Savage ammo was listed as having a 180gr bullet) also and the bullet was listed as .309 , so I'd take what the old books say with a grain of salt. I've looked at a lot of old manuals and bought quite a few of them in researching this stuff. IMO, the time in which the 303 Sav was actually using a .311 bullet was very, very brief if it occurred at all. You'd think there'd be some Savge ammo surviving that had the .311's if they were ever actually produced in any number. I've also read, a great number of times, that Savage 303's had .311 bores and I've seen people in print swear they measured slugs showing a groove diameter of .311. I dunno, I kinda doubt it. We're talking almost 120 years back now and depending on advertising documents and old magazine articles for most of this stuff. Some swear the .311 is gospel, some of us are at least a little skeptical. In the end, the 303 had a real good rep as a stopper on bear, moose, etc. Mattern says over and over that the 303 Savage was a better penetrator than the 30-30. Real world differences? Your guess is as good as mine.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Got it in the lathe, turned the muzzle back about 1/8", and cut a fresh crown at about 15°. Looks pretty good now, except for the rotten bore. Breaking for lunch now, maybe I'll have time this afternoon to sweat the front sight base back on and shoot some PP loads.