Sizing issues Pt 2, but then again maybe be not

[Michael]

Went out with my wife this morning for some more trigger time for her behind her 338 Fed. I loaded up the 5 Lee 338-220-R slugs where earlier I was having issues sizing (A NOE push through sizer and bushings has since been ordered). The goal is to develop a load close to full power with similar point of impact to her jacketed hunting loads.

Anyway, in new Starline brass, WLR, c.o.l. at 2.700", PC'd, sized to 0.339 with the nose at 0.330, on top of 38.1grs of AA-2495 produced this at 100yds after my wife sent 6 rounds of jacketed down range. Quikload estimates the velocity at 2070fps. The wide shot was the first round, the remaining 4 went right-left-right-left/up-down-up-down. The 5 rounds went 1.70-ish" center to center, with 4 in 0.950-ish. I realize 1 group really doesn't mean much, but it is gratifying and hopefully my optimism will not go to waste.

 

[fiver]

it takes a few to get the barrel seasoned for cast loads.
i once seen it take 11+1 shots for lube to get to the muzzle on one of my rifles.
generally it's about 7.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Yup its all about dem barrel cooties!!


CW

 

[Tomme boy]

I had a H&R Handi that took 30+ rounds after cleaning to shoot well. I did not ever clean it much because of this.

I even go as far as if I am switching powders, I have at least 5 rounds to shoot into the dirt to lay down the powder I am going to test. A lot of guns you will never be able to tell the difference. Until you get one that is so accurate, it tells you you just did something wrong. And powder switching will show up sometimes.

That is also why a lot of benchresters shoot a fouling shot into the dirt before going for a group.

 

[Spindrift]

That looks good, Michael!
The .338 Fed is an interesting cartridge; never had one myself, though.

 

[fiver]

some of the BR type guys have been talking recently of load tuning not only through a node, but through pressure affecting the hardness of the carbon layer put down in the barrel.

i've seen something similar with different powders laying down different levels of hardness in a barrel.
my take on it was more dry fluffy deposits, rather than thinking about it as a harder or softer layer, but it does make sense to me.

 

[Michael]

Okay then, good for them. Sense or no sense, that is a rabbit hole I won't be venturing down anytime soon.
Maybe drawing smiley faces on the noses or meplats of cast bullets, adjustments in point of impact could made by which way the eyes are made to look.

 

[fiver]

the only reason i threw that in there.
is...
the carbon in the barrel is also part of the lubrication system.
laying a new level down is effected by the other junk in the barrel.
think about the pitted barrels in an old mil-surp those pits are gonna get something in them, hard deposits are also gonna take stuff down in the cracks.
a fluff will be blown out some or cling to the lube going by and get drawn to the target.

ever wonder why you see some target pictures with dark rings around the holes?

 

[Ian]

the only reason i threw that in there.
is...
the carbon in the barrel is also part of the lubrication system.
laying a new level down is effected by the other junk in the barrel.
think about the pitted barrels in an old mil-surp those pits are gonna get something in them, hard deposits are also gonna take stuff down in the cracks.
a fluff will be blown out some or cling to the lube going by and get drawn to the target.

ever wonder why you see some target pictures with dark rings around the holes?

This is exactly right. Remember he powder coated these and she shot them after jacketed (assume no cleaning in between). I ALWAYS get a first shot about that much out of the group from a fouled barrel with PC, but if I just push a couple patches through before the group then the first shot lands dead center of the group that follows, every time. Really handy to take a CLEAN rifle out and know it will put the first shot right on. Something about a cooled carbon film throws the first shot a little though.

 

[fiver]

speed.
remember me mentioning using graphite to grease the wheels better when trying to go super slow?
i was basically giving the bullet something besides lube to glide on.

anyway barrel condition is a weird thing.
nobody ever talks about scrubbing carbon from the last 2-3 inches of a barrel, but plenty of people sure talk about having to remove extra copper from that area.
it doesn't happen in all rifles, and both things don't always happen either.
but IME if one of them is gonna happen that's where they do.

 

[RBHarter]

One season or maybe 2-3 ....... I was tinkering with graphite and steel shot at the time . It didn't do anything for patterns but how much do you really want to improve on 109 of 115 Bs inside 27" at 40 yd at 1470 fps ?
The oldest boy was shooting a M500 turkey special something . Forest camo all over , ported 24" barrel with a 2" Hastings steel full choke extended choke . The inside of the barrel looked like it had been over sprayed and orange peeled. The gun Smith said shoot a few steel 3" mags it'll clean up . I'd rather not discuss getting the plastic out of the cheese grater ...... I hosed down the the barrel inside with dry graphite, and as a side by side I did the BPS too . The M500 had less plastic fuzz immediately in the ports . By the end of the second weekend the bore looked like polished glass , you know that oily reflective slick look . In the BPS it was the same as always and I could see the choke steps still .

Imagine the let down when I cleaned it up at the season to discover that under the slick polished graphite was living still that half the length 100 grit surface .

Probably shot 2 cases of shells through it and never did get it any better . Full of graphite was the only way it ever looked right .

I dinked with it a little while I was actually fighting a barrel choke to reduce the lead sticking.

 

[CZ93X62]

Yup its all about dem barrel cooties!!


CW

This term needs a 'sticky' all its own.

 

[Michael]

One item that I did not mention is that the same powder was used for both the jacketed and cast projectiles. I purposefully opted to shoot the cast right after the jacketed without cleaning just to see how they would do. We've all heard reports that shooting cast after jacketed without a thorough cleaning is a recipe for poor results, and even that has been discussed, debunked, proven, yada yada yada. Never tried it before until now, could be PC vs a traditional lube thing, don't know, and as I mentioned earlier, one group doesn't mean much, my blind pet squirrel found an acorn... time will tell.

I am aware the carbon fouling the formation of carbon rings ahead of the chamber is a factor. A good friend of mine who likes his Coopers has issues from time to time, Kroil, JB, and Elbow Grease are his pals.