wadcutter key holing.

[Tom]

Tried some Lee tl 148 wc today with vectan ba10. I got key holing with about 10 %. Followed mfgr recipe of 2.0 grs. Compared to 3.2 bullseye, recoil and report were light. Cast from pb with about 1% sn added, and lubed with bll.
Had some old 3.2 loads with unknown commercial 148 wc. They shot fine.
Pulled remaining Lee ba10 loads and they miked at .3575 to .3562, front and rear respectively.
Thinking I need to up the charge a bit to get them to slug up.
What do you think, am I on the right track?

 

[Brad]

Any leading? Only time I ever had key holing with a WC was some that were hard and undersized. After 25 of those I could mine the bore with a shovel.

 

[Tom]

A lilttle, but not much leading. The tl wcs I cast were very soft. Obviously they sized down a bit while seating, but I would think they would slug up at firing.
I fired about 70 of my home cast ones today, followed by 150 or so commercial ones that gave no key holing.

 

[Brad]

Pure with 1% tin is still really soft. Figure that 20-1 is 5 % tin and even 40-1 is 2.5% tin.
Might want to add more tin. Even going to 1% antimony and just enough tin to get some fill out. Would still be pretty soft but grip the rifling better.

 

[Tom]

Thanks, I'll try that approach. Figured that down around 740 fps, soft would be better, but I'm sure the commercial ones aren't that soft. Soft versus hard, looks like too much of a good thing isn't good.

 

[Brad]

Commercial swayed are soft but even they have some antimony. It improves the swagability, if that is a word, of the lead. May only be 1% but it makes a difference.

 

[Tom]

Okay, looks like I need to add some ww to my soft lead? I've never cast wc before, and only used soft for muzzle loaders.

 

[Ian]

Couple things. Are you using wadcutter brass? What kind of expander spud are you using, and is it long enough to expand the case the whole length of the bullet? I shoot near-pure WC's out of several .38s, no issues even without a hollow base.

 

[Tom]

Ian, I'm just using mixed 38 brass, and a lee flaring tool die to bell the mouths. The ones I pulled had sized down a bit, just mistakenly figured the bang would slug them back up.

 

[fiver]

tumbling is caused by one of 2 things.
1 you ain't gripping the rifling.
2 you aren't spinning the boolit fast enough.

you only had 10% of them tumble but what do the other holes look like?
a little torn in one corner of the hole perhaps?

add some more powder if so.

 

[Tom]

Fiver, I was only thinking about it from the gripping the rifling standpoint. Since the recoil and report was substantially below the 3.2 be load which is in itself a mild load, it could well be that they were not moving fast enough to stabilize. Maybe it would be a good time to chrony some of those loads, as well as increase powder a couple of tenths or so. I've never tried ba10 before, so was just using the vectan data. Also, seating a little deeper might help. I crimped lightly about 1 32nd from the top, just enough to remove the flare. Seating flush would reduce case capacity enough to make the 2 grain charge workable?

 

[Ben]

Tom :

I think Ian has your answer.
Get some wadcutter brass.
You won't be swagging the bullet with the wadcutter brass.
I don't think you mentioned the diameter of your unknown commercial 148 wc bullets ? ?

I shoot the Lee TL W/C bullet a lot.
Mine are lubed with BLL, they are sized .358" and cast with straight WW's.
I load mine into W-W , 38 Spec. W/C brass. ( I'm fortunate to have 1,000 pieces
of W-W once fired wadcutter brass )

I have several thousand rounds of mixed 38 Spec. brass, but I try not to use it for loading W/C rounds. The Lee 148 T/L W/C bullets shoot clean, & they shoot very accurately in my many 38 Spec. revolvers. You may find that the small amounts of leading that you are seeing right now may disappear if you move to a .358" bullet diameter.

 

[Brad]

Short of buying lots of factory WC ammo how does one find WC brass? Is it simply a case of lucking into the right buy?

 

[Ben]

Brad,

I posted " on that other forum " a few years ago that I wanted to buy 1,000 pieces of W/C brass. A fellow responded , saying that he had what I wanted.

I paid more than I would have for mixed range pick up brass, I paid $75 per K shipped. My brass is all W-W and once fired.

Obviously, using this brass in my revolvers, I probably won't live long enough to use all of it.

Ben

 

[fiver]

the wad cutter brass is dimensioned differently.
I have a small stash of Winchester and federal wad cutter match target brass.
the cases are configured so the walls are actually straight I'm sure the max pressure would be lower with them but that isn't the point to their existence.
the only way I know of to get them now is to actually buy factory wad cutter ammo or get it from someone that does.