wal martians..

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
There's always been idiot's among us, I don't think people or kids are any dumber today than they have ever been. What's different today is the schools in what they are and what they are not teaching. School system has been on an ever increasing spiral down the commode for 40+ years. Today high school grads can't make change or think out solutions to common problems. Pretty sad.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I had a fairly recent graduate that couldn't digest flat rate on last yr savings to see how $260/yr would be a million dollar retirement at 50 if he started at 25 .............he was floored when he realized that at just 5% the first year was worth $520 at 10 yr ......
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
It pains me to say this, but I think we're overdoing the emphasis on individual liberties, and individual expression. There is such a thing as the collective good, and it is not welfare or handouts. Sometime assistance is truly necessary, but not for a lifetime, except in very rare cases. My mom used to rail on about welfare recipients, suggesting we help them for a limited time, but in exchange they can clean the local governmental offices, parks, and shovel snow.

Mom was a child of the depression, and it had a profound effect on her.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
she seen the good that those government projects done, not just for the country but for the people willing to take part.
you can still see the affect of their work in places to this day.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
From the CCP- Cicilian Conservation Corp, to the WPA- Works Progress Administration, these are the programs primarily responsible for a lot of out infrastructure like dams, roads & highways, power transmission lines, and much more. I heard about all of it. Also about civilian life during WWII, and a lot more. She was a tough old girl, very tough.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Most people can't even count on their fingers or realize that's how come we have a base ten number system in the first place.
 

Intheshop

Banned
Stay with me,

I didn't make it out of highschool,was a pretty durn highly paid,successful builder before the age of 18....no complaints.

We have 3 phds in the immediate family,which I pretty much bankrolled.Now,you didn't hear this from me....ya'll know what a classic bell curve is,you know it's purpose,it's intentions,statistics,yadayada.I saw with my own two eyes a cpl can't be named,way the freak up the education ladder individual's manipulate the std curve.It was prolly 15? years ago on,oh how you say....some cray cray builderdicks dining room table.They shifted the curve about 5 points to the left.The lower jaw bone slamming into the hdwd.It was done behind closed doors.That moment in time....a moment of clarity,woke me up to systematic social engineering.

Where's my longbow?need to go hunting.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I grew up with Depression Era stories from my maternal grandmother. The CCC was one of the Crown Jewels of her stories, although she hated FDR. In later years I talked with 2 older gentlemen in different areas who had been CCC workers. They told a not so glossy, warm or fuzzy story that included beatings, theft, sexual misconduct and some other not so nice tales. But, they got fed and got money to send home to the folks. Funny you never hear about much of that, but I suppose the winners do write the history.

I have never been good at making change. And I probably would have froze up like that counter girl these days. When we were homeschooling I was learning 7th and 8th grade math for the first time, or so it seemed. What we were taught, at least in my school, was nothing like what my kids were getting. I never had anything related to algebra, geometry or trig. In those days people that didn't "get math" were steered into a business course where math was adding, subtracting etc. I never took any course that had anything more complex than A + B = C. Not everything was perfect back in the day, and people were no more or less intelligent. We just used different methods and had different goals. That being said, if we were to strip our educational system of the useless trash and concentrate on EDUCATION, then yes, we'd be far ahead and we'd save oodles of money too.
 

Intheshop

Banned
Bret,my dad was the "civil engineer" for a St park 100 miles or so S of here during the CCC.Still the smartest geometry "wiz" I've ever had the pleasure of even meeting,much less working with.

I'm a certifiable book nerd.... if you go back and look at "trade" books post Civil war,up to about WWI.... well,it's eye opening to what the craftsmen were "expected" to know.Including HIGH levels of geometry,algebra,trig/calc.Just sayin,Woodrow Wilson era wasn't totally about world peace.It's been my observations that it started an acceptance if you will,of stupidity.Which led,JMO... to the financial crisis to follow.
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
I guess I feel a lot less negative towards the next generation since I spent more than 25 years teaching technical subjects in a college setting to mostly young folks. Yes, there are some gems out there, and I realize that I dealt with a somewhat gifted subset of the population, but I have met some extremely bright young folks. Even in the old days every village had it's idiot (or three).

I don't ignore the problems in education, but I do realize that nowadays more people have the opportunity to get virtually any type of education served up in multiple ways on a variety of mediums. Anyone who CHOOSES to stay ignorant can only blame the guy in the mirror.

Kids have to know different things to cope and survive in our current society. To compare a few benchmarks in select areas (example: math competency and level of achievement) while ignoring the overall level of knowledge paints a false picture. How many kids learned Boolean math 75 years ago? How many could program a robot, CNC machine, or computer? Oh yeah, that's right, they DIDN'T EXIST then. How many self appointed "smart" older folks have to get their grandkids to solve their computer/phone problems?

The good old days weren't that good, only the survivors believe that. I prefer to look to and live in the future, and I have faith in our youth. You learned, I learned, they'll learn. Let's give them a break.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
Keith has a point about them needing a different skill set for the future.

IMO however when that future doesn't quite work out the way they were pointed it is gonna be a bunch harder for them, and this is where the gap of have and have not's comes from, the ones that make it have and the ones that don't no matter their effort just don't get any.
they are not prepared in any way for anything but the 'making it' part.

I don't know where the gap come from but childhood and the real world are not compatible anymore, maybe [shrug] one day, what it is, is what it will be, but there is gonna be a heaping helping of hurt for a large majority of them if they ever have to do anything without that technology.

throughout history the team with the better technology always won the war, but when it got broke down and things went savage those that didn't have to rely on the gadgets were the victors.
maybe not in the total war but in the battle at the moment.

maybe it's those cell phone zombies that are ready for what is coming up next, they seem connected to their world somehow.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
exactly.
there was a time not so long ago around here that a man without a horse was a dead man.
a few years later thousands made that same trip on foot pushing and pulling glorified wheelbarrows.
there was a large percentage that died along the way..... most of them were men. [basically worked themselves to death]
polygamy in the LDS church was brought on by the simple fact that there were too many women raising children alone in an isolated area.
a generation later it was over, but they were/are still only known for that one thing.
they were never given recognition for opening the California and Oregon trail, or for starting the gold rush in California.
they also forced the Federal government to bring troops out west to stop them from starting their own country.
but that was only 20 years before the civil war.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Charismatic opportunists with ulterior motives will never let a good emergency go to waste, either.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I guess I should have finished with a point..:D

the DOT.GOV. existed even back then.
the Russians and English both had people roaming and settling on the west coast by that time.
the Mormons were cutting in the state of Deseret which went all the way down to san diego for a sea port, they were also doing it with the Indians umm 'blessings' [through friendship or fear]
Mexico wanted the areas they [or the Spanish] had explored previously.

the GOV. had no alternative but to move west or lose the land mass to someone else.
[that may or may not be friendly]
their only problem was they couldn't get most of the members of established community's to get up and move.
still I'm pretty surprised it took them 40+ years to get enough world citizens rounded up to get it done.

it does make one wonder what it took to get statehood accomplished though [protection promises? coercion?]
 

Ian

Notorious member
B-b-b-but "Manifest Destiny" was ordained by the Almighty...so said .gov, or what I was taught in school history class :p. Whose Almighty, well of course we know whose, the ones with the cavalry.
 
These remarks about the younger generation and their apparent reliance on technology bring to mind a statement attributed to Einstein:"I fear the day when technology will surpass our normal human interactions. We will have a generation of idiots." I fear that the day is here. GW
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I have a set of Audels carpentry and machinists books from the 1920's, IIRC. The math section still gives me the heebie-jeebies. Can't make heads nor tails of some of it. But then, it looks to me like some of the math has been drastically simplified along the way to the stuff I was teaching my kids out of that Saxon math book. Simplification and progress are fine. The slide rule isn't making a comeback any time soon, but in it's day it was what a high end scientific calculator is to us. My youngest son is learning disabled in a few areas. If it wasn't for calculators, he'd be slowing the rest of his class down to a crawl. Technology isn't always a bad thing.

Woodrow Wilson. Bad guy in a great many ways, arguably the worst Prez of the 20th century.. But he was a product of his time, the first clearly progressive US pol. He adhered to the new age, high tech political science of his day. Progress isn't always a good thing either.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Well, you guys do what you want, but I'm keeping my slide rule, log tables and trig tables. Dependability is worth something, no batteries nor sun required, does stop working if you drop them or they get dusty or wet. While I haven't used then for a few years, I do know where they are kept.