What Is This Trying to Tell Me?

[quicksylver]

I have had this 1917 Eddystone 30-06 for about about three years.
It has the original 1918 barrel and has been shoot very little (It was stationed in England)
It was giving me fits until I did my research and fund that the original barrels were .30 bore and .311 grooves
on a good day.
Not having any luck with bullets sized .311 ,I started sizing them .313 and groups immediately shrunk by almost half.
Having a limited number of molds that would size to .313 I tried my NOE 311315 .
It drops a bullet with my alloy at about .3115.
I Applied a gas check and pushed them through a .313 sizer I got from Doug (Good work he does).
Then I lubed them with BAC and rolled them in BLL.

Now the reason for the question.
The bullets should be undersized for the barrel, however the gas checks mic right @ .313.
Best shooting bullet I have had for the 1917.

I have also used my 312284 and 314299, they are good but the 315 gives me consistent 5/8-1 1/4" groups @ 100 with iron sights.

Why ,how come?

 

[waco]

Wow! With iron sights? That's impressive man. Very fine shooting sir.

 

[quicksylver]

Thank you, just can't figure out why it works so well and others don't.
The 311284 is showing promise though.

Got to tell you that the extra 2 " on the end of the barrel helps my 67yr old eyes.

The difference in sight picture between my 1903a3 and 1917 is amazing.

This ahs to have something to do with the tapered design of the #315

Any other bullets like it out there?

Next try is going to be with the NOE 30 Hunter.

The numbers will be the same .312 bullet, .313 gas check and same nose diameter I believe.

 

[KHornet]

Great group. When you keep testing, sometimes you just hit on a winner!

 

[300BLK]

I tuned in to a similar happenstance with my CZ-527 in 7.62x39. I was shooting Lee 309-150-F that drop right at .312". Sized .312" and .313", and the latter shot tiny groups. I suspect that while the 313" GC is sealing the throat, the smaller bullet diameter is more compatible with the groove diameter.

That Saeco and its clones seem to group well for most who try them. My Saeco has more taper to it than the NOE version or Accurate Mold's version #175B. The tapered bullet combined with the taper the throat seem to make for excellent alignment during launch. Likewise, the 30XCB, Lee C312-155 and CTL312-160, NOE's 311-155FN, and the Ed Harris design clones amongst others. Fiver's 165gr design by AM also has excellent reports. Frank's 309-169 Match/Elco (?) by NOE is another that's working well for me.

 

[quicksylver]

300 Thanks for the reply.

I think you are correct, just seems odd.

I have tried NOE"s 311-155 and the Lee 312-155 as well as NOE3144466 and as of yet can not produce any really good results with them in any of my 'o6's'
Guess I just have not found the right combo yet.
I consider 3/4" or less @100 yds to be my goal.
Any load suggestions for those bullets in 30-06 would be appreciated.

Dan

 

[Ian]

Short version: The bullet that shoots the best groups happens to fit the gun best in all three dimensions and likes that charge of powder and alloy combination. Also, you might want to give Unique a try instead of Universal, work it around the same charge weight in .2-grain increments for about a grain either direction, and see what you get.

 

[freebullet]

I have no technical answer for your question. Maybe the alloy is soft enough for obturation to occur or the rounds could be low enough pressure that the gas check gives you sweetness despite undersizing.

Good shootin either way. I'd not do so well with open sights.

 

[JWFilips]

Wow, quicksylver Those are impressive groups with receiver sights ( Now I see what you mean)

While I don't feel I'm knowledgeable enough to answer your question since I have only been shooting cast boolits in rifles for only a year and a half; I do know my long barreled GEW98 is great with receiver sights and that long barrel helps. And I have always found so far that .003" over groove diameter has shot best for me. my alloy is 50%WW+ 50% pure with an additional 2% more tin.... Air cooled for all my rifles (except .243 win which are water dropped) My GEW 98 8 mm likes .326" , my 30 cals like 313" My .243 likes .2465" at gas check. and my 35 Rem marlin likes .362"
Plump boolits for me shoot the tightest groups

 

[JWFilips]

quicksylver,
Quick question: I know you photographed close ups of your groups but what type of bull are you using at 100yds with open sights. I assumed you have a receiver rear sight on the rifle...front sight?

 

[35 shooter]

Whatever the reason it sure is working for you. That is STELLAR shooting with the reciever sight...wow!
Maybe it's "bumping up" on firing? There is very good fit going on somehow for sure.

 

[yodogsandman]

That is some great shooting for sure!

Have you been able to recover any bullets to give any clues why it works so well for you?

 

[Brad]

What it is telling you is that fit is more than just bullet diameter.
Your bullet design, alloy, and pressure happen to be about ideal for the throat of the rifle. The bullet is changing shape a bit on firing and that makes for a good dynamic fit.

It also tells me you are a pretty darn good shot.

 

[quicksylver]

Hey Guys. Thanks for the interest

To answer the first question my 1917 sports a Parker Hale rear sight (See pix).
The front sight is sort of custom.
I had a Parker Hale Globe front sight I tried to get installed, actually did,
but it turned out to be way too high.
, so I installed an early Lyman Globe.
I had 5 or 6 extra front sights so I had one of them milled for the PH.
Knowing what I know now I would have milled a dove tail in it instead of a "rail"

The target I use for 100 yds is the official 50' NRA Slow Fire pistol target from my Bulls Eye Pistol League years.
Being a frugal Yankee farm boy I have used the same target for almost two years.
I have a constant supply of 11x17 paper (Thanks to the TOWN Board I serve on),.
What I do is post the target and then post the 11x17 horizontally under that, then I sight my rifle to shoot in the center of the 11x17.
Doing this I can get 5-6 groups across the paper by changing my windage.
Photos are taken with my cell phone.

Wish I could recover bullets but we have traps designed to capture all rounds, they just end up welded together.
One day when no one is around I will shoot off to the side and see if I can't get some.

Now the new stuff, yesterday I decided to try my 311332 in this puppy.
Mine drops 312 bands and 302 nose with my 50 lino / 50 Pure, 1% tin added, air cooled.
I forgot to take a pix but I think it gave me a 1" -1 1/8" group with 14 grs Universal.
It was suggested that I try .2 grs on both sides of that.
So today I did.

YOU GOT TO CHECK OUT the 13.8 grain group.

Another good bullet !

I agree, something is right!

 

[JWFilips]

Quicksylver,
Your shooting at distances with receiver sights gives me something to aspire to! Thank you for posting.
So if I'm correct ; your 100 yard "black" bull is 3 inches in diameter....correct?
Jim

 

[quicksylver]

Jim. My "bull" is actually about 5 1/4 " in dia. Check out the NRA B-16 target. Dan

 

[yodogsandman]

Very impressive shooting!!

 

[quicksylver]

Thank you. I believe I am fortunate to have acquired this rifle. My 1903 is not doing quite as well, at least not as consistsntly. However my bubba-ized 1903a4 clone is my anti depressant. Any time I feel like my shooting is slipping I put twenty rounds through that and all is well again. Just love the vintage weaver t16 that is in it. I'll post pixs.. PS thinking about posting an iron sight discuss to see if I can'T pick up a few pointers.