Who doesn't like the Lyman 358311 158 RN ?
- Thread starter Wallyl
- Start date
Edward R Southgate
Component Hoarder Extraordiniare
Never owned any round nosed molds for revolver calibers , never had any need of them . Not good game bullets in my opinion .
I shot the #358311 a lot when I was a kid, in fact it was the 1st revolver bullet that I cast on my own. Dad started us on 1cav RB, then 1cav #356402, 1cav #358311.
I bought into the same "SWC Fantasy" as everyone else when I got out of the Service in 1975. I got a 2cav #358477 & #358495 to start. A #358311 2cav was purchased simply because I was used to having them to load for plinking. I also picked up the #358429 for .38-44 loads in my Colt OP 6".
After a LOT of shooting in an old WW2 M&P 4" and My OP, I noticed the #358311 seemed to group better over 3.5grs of Bullseye.
I added only #358156GC for .357Mag loads to My .38cal mold collection. All bought between 1974 & 1977. The next molds were all 4cav, bought a Lyman Mag-20 bottom pour pot.
The next mold was the new #358665. Because of My Kids joining me in Cowboy Shooting all other molds went into Storage. Except the #358311 for Handgun, and the #358665 for Rifle.
I trim all my Revolver brass to start, then don't worry about it. Having a Progressive allows me to crimp in a separate roll crimp die.
The Kids are gone now. And the only 2 .38cal I cast for myself are the #358429 for .38-44 loads which also serve in my old M27.
And the #358311 for all .38Spl for everything else. I cast out of 3 different 4cav molds these days. The #358311RN, #358429 for me and the #358477 for a shooting Buddy.
After 55yrs I'm back where I started.
And I have one of those RCBS #38-158-RN newer molds. I bought it from the estate of a club member. But I never really felt comfortable with it. May just sell it. It'll be the 1st mold I'll have sold in more then 20yrs.
GEEZ, I am long winded.
I bought into the same "SWC Fantasy" as everyone else when I got out of the Service in 1975. I got a 2cav #358477 & #358495 to start. A #358311 2cav was purchased simply because I was used to having them to load for plinking. I also picked up the #358429 for .38-44 loads in my Colt OP 6".
After a LOT of shooting in an old WW2 M&P 4" and My OP, I noticed the #358311 seemed to group better over 3.5grs of Bullseye.
I added only #358156GC for .357Mag loads to My .38cal mold collection. All bought between 1974 & 1977. The next molds were all 4cav, bought a Lyman Mag-20 bottom pour pot.
The next mold was the new #358665. Because of My Kids joining me in Cowboy Shooting all other molds went into Storage. Except the #358311 for Handgun, and the #358665 for Rifle.
I trim all my Revolver brass to start, then don't worry about it. Having a Progressive allows me to crimp in a separate roll crimp die.
The Kids are gone now. And the only 2 .38cal I cast for myself are the #358429 for .38-44 loads which also serve in my old M27.
And the #358311 for all .38Spl for everything else. I cast out of 3 different 4cav molds these days. The #358311RN, #358429 for me and the #358477 for a shooting Buddy.
After 55yrs I'm back where I started.
And I have one of those RCBS #38-158-RN newer molds. I bought it from the estate of a club member. But I never really felt comfortable with it. May just sell it. It'll be the 1st mold I'll have sold in more then 20yrs.
GEEZ, I am long winded.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
IMO there's nothing wrong with the standard RN types within their range of use- targets. The standard profile RN is not a hunting bullet IMO. Beyond that I've used the 311 type RNs a bunch and never had a complaint. I just like FP and SWC's more better. I surely like RN's over WC's out past 50 or so yards, although some WC's will surprise you.
Yup, they are old fashioned and not real cool. But I've never had to shoot twice to stop a charging tin can or rock!
Yup, they are old fashioned and not real cool. But I've never had to shoot twice to stop a charging tin can or rock!
Bret4207,
Well said....almost all my pistol shooting is plinking tin cans, as that's what I enjoying shooting. Never been much for paper punching and I used to shoot steel. Gave up on the later as I discovered shooting into a sand hill, I can recover my lead. I even have been known to place plastic baler twine through a center hole in a can, suspending it, as a mini-shooting steel rig. The 358311 works just dandy for such shooting.
Well said....almost all my pistol shooting is plinking tin cans, as that's what I enjoying shooting. Never been much for paper punching and I used to shoot steel. Gave up on the later as I discovered shooting into a sand hill, I can recover my lead. I even have been known to place plastic baler twine through a center hole in a can, suspending it, as a mini-shooting steel rig. The 358311 works just dandy for such shooting.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Wouldn't pick a RN pistol bullet for shooting anything with a pulse, and yes, it doesn't cut a "wad" out of a paper target. But the 358311 and its clones have three virtues.
- Nothing drops into a revolver cylinder easier than a RN design.
- Many revolvers (at least most older ones) were factory fix-sighted for a 158gr RN bullet at a specific velocity.
- Every RN mold design I have fills out well, even with questionable alloys, and drops bullets very easily with few hangups.
Not saying you can't get other bullet designs to be almost as good in most regards and even better for some purposes. I do like my 358429, 358477 and several other TC/SWC designs. But for bouncing around rocks and tin cans and busting up dirt clods RNs work fine.
- Nothing drops into a revolver cylinder easier than a RN design.
- Many revolvers (at least most older ones) were factory fix-sighted for a 158gr RN bullet at a specific velocity.
- Every RN mold design I have fills out well, even with questionable alloys, and drops bullets very easily with few hangups.
Not saying you can't get other bullet designs to be almost as good in most regards and even better for some purposes. I do like my 358429, 358477 and several other TC/SWC designs. But for bouncing around rocks and tin cans and busting up dirt clods RNs work fine.
KeithB
Well said.....
- Every RN mold design I have fills out well, even with questionable alloys, and drops bullets very easily with few hangups.
I have found that to be true as well. The mold produces bullets that are .360" in diameter, so if you go "heavy" on the lead in your alloy you will still get good "fill" and they will still be big enough sized to .358".
The .38 Spl with the 158 RN bullet was the standard police load for many years, probably because with a speed loader one could reload very quickly. In my 9mm Lugers I use the Lee 125 RN cast bullet...never had a feed problem using it with light powder charges. When plinking with it there is really no difference using a RN vs a SWC/TC nosed bullets in teh 9mm.
Well said.....
- Every RN mold design I have fills out well, even with questionable alloys, and drops bullets very easily with few hangups.
I have found that to be true as well. The mold produces bullets that are .360" in diameter, so if you go "heavy" on the lead in your alloy you will still get good "fill" and they will still be big enough sized to .358".
The .38 Spl with the 158 RN bullet was the standard police load for many years, probably because with a speed loader one could reload very quickly. In my 9mm Lugers I use the Lee 125 RN cast bullet...never had a feed problem using it with light powder charges. When plinking with it there is really no difference using a RN vs a SWC/TC nosed bullets in teh 9mm.
"Back in the day" I was real active in the local PPC competition. The 358311 worked really well with speed loaders, so I cast and shot a LOT of them. However, I am big on an "all around" bullet and the RN isn't worth a darn as a small game hunting bullet, let alone for self defense. My preferred bullet for .38 Special for both range and small game use is a "full charge" wadcutter. I use mostly the H&G #51 wadcutter from an original 4 cavity H&G mould. I also have a dandy six cavity H&G mould for a double ended wadcutter bullet that is arguably an even better hunting bullet. However, in my old age, I find that iron six cavity mold very tiring to use (it weighs nearly five pounds
).
FWIW
Dale53
).FWIW
Dale53
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
I just bought a used RCBS two cavity 158gr .38 RN mold from S Mac, it is the older design that has a crimp groove. Slightly different nose length than the no-name 38 RN mold I use now and a single cavity 358311 I have used. I bought the mold thinking that it would be a good base for an inset bar type HP conversion, the two cavity RCBS blocks are meaty enough.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
FWIW, RN 38 revolver bullets for police work were on their way out when speed loaders started to become common (late 70's). The RN was standard because bullet performance on BG's wasn't a big issue in the day, I suppose because there just wasn't that much info on it out there. Reading the writings of that era they were a lot more likely to recommend several shots or a larger caliber rather than any change in bullet profile. One exception to that was a recommendation for the 358430 with it's blunt RN by few people in print. They also recommended boosting velocity, ala 38/44, 357, 38 Super.
That being said, even hand feeding a revolver from dump pouches or loops is easier with RN's compared to a WC/SWC.
That being said, even hand feeding a revolver from dump pouches or loops is easier with RN's compared to a WC/SWC.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Gross subject matter alert, up front.
RN bullets and mid-caliber chamberings lost favor in LE circles when the rules of engagement changed after WWII. Back in those days, it was considered proper and sporting to fire upon fleeing suspected felons without much regard for their status as "armed' or not. Police- and citizen-fired bullets were as much "marking pellets" as defensive tools--maybe more the former than the latter. The rationale was that said suspected felon might absorb one or more of those pellets and eventually come to the attention of either the medicos or the undertaker, who by law were and are required to report such events to the gendarmerie. Imagine a time that placed at least equal emphasis upon identifying a crime suspect positively and causing him/her to answer for his/her misdeeds, compared to today's standard of assuring that all possible steps were taken to assure a predator's comfort and well-being prior to assessing his/her guilt. It was a fine country, back in the day.
But I digress, as usual. After WWII, social mores began to frown upon those who projected finality upon otherwise well-deserving recipients unless said projector was also under quasi-fatal duress. IOW, the bad guys are generally COMING AT YOU or at close quarters, and not retiring from the field. The shortcomings of light-tackle angling and streamlined bullet forms became readily apparent. Per bullets fired, a lot more cops and citizens started getting shot than crooks, unlike times past. That would not do--hence the push for fatter and flatter bullets, with expansion being rated a good thing. On and on it goes.
RN bullets and mid-caliber chamberings lost favor in LE circles when the rules of engagement changed after WWII. Back in those days, it was considered proper and sporting to fire upon fleeing suspected felons without much regard for their status as "armed' or not. Police- and citizen-fired bullets were as much "marking pellets" as defensive tools--maybe more the former than the latter. The rationale was that said suspected felon might absorb one or more of those pellets and eventually come to the attention of either the medicos or the undertaker, who by law were and are required to report such events to the gendarmerie. Imagine a time that placed at least equal emphasis upon identifying a crime suspect positively and causing him/her to answer for his/her misdeeds, compared to today's standard of assuring that all possible steps were taken to assure a predator's comfort and well-being prior to assessing his/her guilt. It was a fine country, back in the day.
But I digress, as usual. After WWII, social mores began to frown upon those who projected finality upon otherwise well-deserving recipients unless said projector was also under quasi-fatal duress. IOW, the bad guys are generally COMING AT YOU or at close quarters, and not retiring from the field. The shortcomings of light-tackle angling and streamlined bullet forms became readily apparent. Per bullets fired, a lot more cops and citizens started getting shot than crooks, unlike times past. That would not do--hence the push for fatter and flatter bullets, with expansion being rated a good thing. On and on it goes.