45 ACP - Second opinion requested

Charles Graff

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
I am loading up a batch of 300 45 ACPs for home defense use. I have 300 of Matts Bullets 200 grain RN HP with the big honking multi-sided cavity. The various load books say 4.7/Bullseye is max for a 200 grain cast, but I want to load 5.0 grain. I think I am OK doing so and here is my logic, check out my thinking.

Billions of 45 ACP 230 grain Ball ammo were loaded with 5.0 grains of Bullseye. I have loaded many thousand of cast bullet 230 RN with the same charge with no ill effect. I should think that the same powder charge under a bullet weighing 30 grains less should present a smidge extra velocity with no increase in pressure.

Am I right or am I just having a ding dong day?
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
You have much more experience that I do, so I hesitate giving advice.
BUT, as I tell anyone who asks a question like this, I recommend working up a load, look for signs of over pressure on your way up ;)
 
Charles Graff

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
fiver said:
well the Lyman cast bullet manual says
5,0grs. of bulls-eye is fine [max] with 185-195-200-and 225gr. bullets.
so unless your shoving the bullet all the way down into the case then IMO your spot on golden.
Click to expand...
My seating die is set with a 230 grain USGI ball round. The bullet won't intrude in the powder space any more than the aforementioned ball round. My goal is to get as much velocity as safely possible to expand the HP, using Bullseye powder. My mind seems to be working just fine, but I am aware I am in bad health and don't want to miss a stitch on loading the rounds.
 
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Outpost75

Outpost75

Active Member
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) p.277

#452460 200 grains #2 alloy OAL 1.161" 5.6 grains Bullseye 869 fps, 15,700 cup
#452630 200 grains #2 alloy OAL 1.235" 6.0 grains Bullseye 909 fps, 17,000 cup

continuing on p.278
Saeco #058 215 grains #2 alloy OAL 1.185" 5.5 grains Bullseye 930 fps, 17,700 cup
#452374 225 grains #2 alloy OAL 1.272" 5.0 grains Bullseye, 815 fps, 14,400 cup
Lee TL452-230TC #2 alloy OAL 1.170" 5.1 grains Bullseye, 876 fps, 17,800 cup

My chronograph data H&G 68 201 grains wheelweights, .452" OAL 1.20", M1911A1NM
Bullseye_4.0__819 fps, 7 Sd, 20 ES
__________4.5_ 862/21/54
__________5.0_ 922/19/42
__________5.5__951/16/37
 
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Charles Graff

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Bruce - All of the barrels on my 45 Autos have been throated. Experience has taught me that is a round will fit in the mag, it will feed in the gun.

Ed - Thanks for the data it is reassuring. Newest Lyman Handbook I have is the #41. I guess I need to update :)
 
Cherokee

Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
Charles, you should be fine, but I agree you should load a few and shoot them before loading the whole lot. Self defense use needs 100% reliability.
 
RicinYakima

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
My latest data shows 200 grain jacketed with 6.0 grains of Bullseye at 19,400 PSI at OAL 1.175 delivering 960 f/s from 5" barrel.
 
Joshua

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
It’s interesting to me that there is such a big difference in their suggested 200gr powder charges. It goes from 4.6gr to 5.8gr, for lead vs jacketed. Are they worried the lead is going to crumble?;)
81C97B37-8101-4A7B-8133-AEFA123E106E.jpg
 
CZ93X62

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
I cast two 200 grain bullets for my 45 ACP pistols and revolver--Lyman #452460 and the Lee plagiarism of the H&G #68 SWC. Both feed very well in my pistols, though the Lee did produce a slight feeding hiccup when fired in the Glock 21. The rounds all chambered fully, but there was a perceptible "Hitch in the get-along" that could be felt as the slide ran forward--both during firing and when chambered from slide-locked-back position. FYI.

My shop started the 45 ACP out with the 185 grain Winchester Silvertip in 1987, and it did well in the relatively few shootings that occurred during the load's service life, which lasted until 1994. Next up was the W-W Ranger SXT 230 grain JHP, and it also worked wonderfully and still soldiers on as W-W's White Box 230 grain JHP loading. My thoughts on the 45 ACP is that it is much like the 357 Magnum--if run at full potential, there are no "bad' loads in the caliber. Expansion is nice when it happens, but the 45 goes in at .451" or thereabouts and darn sure will not shrink. 200 grains at 900 FPS or more will put a crimp in the style of even the most motivated of predators.
 
RicinYakima

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I was told by some Hodgdon spokesman at a SHOT show that they were worried about soft lead bullets obturating and increasing pressures especially in pistol barrels. He said that there is enough "young gas" (gas escaping after the case expands and before the bullet starts to move) and windage around the bullet before full engraved to lower pressure. He also said that is why, with less friction, lead pistol and revolver bullets are faster than jacketed bullets. FWIW
 
P

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Charles, Your knowledge exceeds that of most people. I think you're on a solid foundation.

Just to be sure I wasn't operating from faulty memory, I checked my Speer #11 and a newer Lyman #50 and found reassuring data that you're fine.

With 200 grain projectiles and Bullseye, 5.0 grains is acceptable and even a bit low for jacketed bullets.
Jacketed bullets require more pressure to push them down the bore and the Bullseye loads for those bullets were listed above 5.0 grains, I think you're in safe territory with a cast lead 200ish grain bullet that is seated appropriately.
 
JWFilips

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Charles,
I find it really hard to overload a 45 acp ( unless you are a Looney!) I have loaded my Lee 230 gr and 200 Lee SWC close to the same loads with the slower powder like Green Dot ( American Select ) and Unique.... But I do tend to Load light!
I to, am Baffled with much of the loading data I see! When it comes to the 45 Acp I follow the old manuals from the 1940 to 1960's
They are a bit hotter than the most modern manuals but still safe in good guns
 
Charles Graff

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Back in 1962 I loaded a batch of 200 grain cast SWC over a max load of Unique. i got the load from Jeff Cooper's writings. I fired the rounds in my trusty Rem-Rand 1911A1. About the 15th round the firing pin plate stop fell out and the firing pin became airborne. It took some crawling around in the West Texas dust to find the parts, but I found them and all was well, no damage to the pistol. I figure it was the recoil and a loose firing pin stop plate.
 
Rick H

Rick H

Well-Known Member
Cooper used to advocate a very hefty load with that 200 gr. SWC. I believe it was a carry often, shoot it rarely type of loading. It was over max suggested book loads even back then. If I remember he said he was pushing near 1100 fps in a Gov't Model.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I'm 2 or 3 decades past the "hotter is better" stage, but after looking at some older data that I've used for years, I think you're good to go.
 
Charles Graff

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Bret..In 1964, I had to hammer open the bolt on an FN Mauser chambered in 300 Weatherby, due to a very high pressure loading. My gunsmith and mentor in all things gunny, just said to me "If you want to drive a bigger nail, use a bigger hammer". That cured me of pushing the red line.
 
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