Anyone have solar panels on the roof?

dannyd

Active Member
Down here in the land of Sunshine; they are between 25,000 and 30,000 dollars installed. That’s the fine print and that’s why they ask about your credit.


Also My house roof the sun moves from east to west and no trees; best for solar and the system still cost that.
 
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Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Good point, My roof is just three years old.

The three big cryteria are. New roof, upgraded electrical system and good credit. I have all, but need to decide.

I asked the question and was told my proposed system, at this time, would be under 2000 to remove and replace. (I asked)

CW

I live a little north of most of you as I'm in central Alaska. The cost of a KW here is CURRENTLY $0.27. It has had a upward trajectory every year. I don't see that trend ending.
So as to Ian's point of not taking tax dollars from the Government to support you personal power grid, well, they already have the public's money and what they don't have they will print. I don't have my hand out for this largesse, but, it will go somewhere. Possibly over Sea.
So Ian look at it another way, the Government in my area and others are screwing up the power supply here by making fuel cost increase. I can't fight that. So when my winters heating fuel is increasing by 50% and the power company's fuel for generation is also increasing, your just getting your taxes back to some degree.
I hate the interference in market principles but, I can't afford to stop it. My family's ability to stay here in the home we built, is to counter it.
By adding solar to our house, and I will add more next summer, I can reduce my consumption of the mighty Kill-o-watt. That KW may/will cost more, but if I use less with a system that lasts longer then I will live, so be it.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
A new car cost for grocery getter about $30,000. It will last from 150,00 miles to 250,000 miles. Along that way you will insure it, fuel it, maintain it, and repair it. And this is excepted and expected.
Solar on the other hand after the initial investment of $20 to $30 thousand, needs no fuel, very little up keep, and it's included in your home owners insurance policy. Besides that it does increase the value of your house and that will only increase. And it pays you back every month.
In northern states, sure the production is down in the winter, but, it's way up in the summer. In Alaska we have more annual sun hours/days then Phoenix. It evens out with net metering. It's a win win and you don't have to change the oil.
My system cost about $7,000 (I worked for a solar dealer, my labor, employees discount) and this takes over 40% of my needs. I'm going to double that solar array size which will be 75 to 80% of my needs. I have a 2600 sq ft 4 bedroom home and a separate 1700 sq ft shop.
It also very dark here in the winter for most of the day.
My system is paid for, so the benefits are obviously there. CW look to see if they can increase your monthly charges.
 
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462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
There ain't no free.

I've nothing against solar power. I've everything against subsidizing the industry.

Two of my neighbors signed 20-year contracts with SolarCity (Elon Musk), the panels were installed at no cost to them, and SolarCity received a taxpayer funded subsidy.

Congress ended the subsidy, SolarCity vanished from the area. Where that leaves my neighbors is not my business, but I wonder nonetheless.

If I were 30 years younger and didn't have any notion of ever moving, I'd be very tempted to go with a self-paid-for solar system.
 

Ian

Notorious member
You make good points, John. I already made peace with my principles regarding subsidized medical insurance (subsidies for which we're no longer eligible due to my employer offering coverage) because the dot g-o-v socialist #@$%& already took over the whole system and truly private insurance is no longer available. So yep, I stuck my hand out for "my" share, since my hand was forced at the point of a $10,000 fine if I didn't take it anyway. Where you live is also different, we have our own, independent grid fir the whole state and local power companies are member-owned and responsible directly to the member/owners. I get a small refund check every July when they settle the books. But, until public electricity production and supply is totally taken over and controlled by our keepers, I refuse to take a handout.
 
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popper

Well-Known Member
I've watched solar, geothermal and wind power for many years, never could figure out that it paid in metro areas. Average residency is 7 yrs, and apt dwelling is increasing rapidly. Storage is the main cost. Weather damage is a problem and increases insurance costs.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
The automatic generator systems are great, just ask Winelover.

And Rick . . . Same unit, same auto switch.

That $50,000 solar system I mentioned was pretty fancy. Wasn't on the roof, Sunk a telephone pole and the panels were on top of that. Had an auto tracking system that kept the panels pointed directly at the sun all day. Even had an auto tilt to dump snow off the panels. Power from the panels went underground to a cement block building that had batteries stacked to the ceiling, all the other walls were full of all manor of electronics. Power went underground from the block building to the house.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
I don't like taking any subsidies either. But the Government is screwing with everything. So in the mean time I need to be able to afford to stay warm and in the light.

The tracking systems are cost prohibitive now that panels are about 1/3 of what they were.

Rick I was think you had a gensest system just could not remember.

I believe in owning your system up front, can't speak to the "middle man" thing as there are probably protections for the middle man that new cost can be passed on to the end user.

We were insalling systems from $13,000 to $22,000 for the average home, a one time cost. But, every region has different laws and utility controls.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Yes Govt subsidies pay a precenrage, elect co pays a small precentage & Solar "utility" pays lions share. There return is "worked into" tour fixed payment. In essence your not so much paying for the electricty your panels harness as your making lease pmts on the equipment. I say lease cause I see no mention of my ever "owning" the equipment.

They dont tell you this of Coarse, but thats bottom line as I see it.
CW
 
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popper

Well-Known Member
One of the problems this year with the 'grid' (Texas) was non-maintenance of the wind and solar equipment. Main reason for roof replacement here is hailstorms. Used to have a lot of solar water heaters here, Not anymore. Solar panels you 'rent' must have some replacement clause, you buy them, your cost. Only thing that makes sense to me for rural is geothermal heat pump powered by solar or wind.
 

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
The system would 90% cover my roof. Forecast is for 100% of my needs. (In normal full sun)

as it was explained to me. Electric installs a meter that runs backwards. If you think of the power coming in as turning a screw: "In"costs $$ as your consuming that energy. When the panels are producing and your needs dont meet that supply, the screw "unscrews" or feeds my unused power back into the grid. Im mot paid for this its just recorded 1:1. So that night or next cloudy day the meter will begin to screw "in" again but now its got to "thread" down over what the panels have "unthreaded" (as recorded by my meter and also monitored by any with access to my panel.

Attractive part, zero out of pocket. Zero maintaince. All upkeep on utility. 35 yr life but as there is no moving parts. As mentioned above a 35 year old system should only loose 10% os power ability at that time.

The costs Is pay are lower then the lowest month I have almost ever had here in 23 years. Yes comparing to a bill I might have had here in the 1990's.

As I said in first... If it seems too good to be true it likely is.

cw
:headscratch:Say what?
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
In the end, it all comes down to the numbers.

There's no magic or mystery, just dollars.

Like all economic decisions you have to get as much information as you can, do the best you can to get good information and do the math.

Most of the systems I see being offered don’t have any storage capability. They consist of panels, an inverter and some means to feed excess power back into the grid. They only make power; they don’t store power. From a money point of view, I can’t tell you if they are a good idea or not. Only you can make that call based on your situation (cost of electricity, tax credits, initial cost of the systems, average amount of sunlight, blah, blah, blah…). I can say that these types of systems are designed to reduce electric bills, they are not designed to provide independence from the grid.

A system with some storage capability is going to have a much greater initial cost and some reoccurring maintenance costs. These types generally store the excess power they make and don’t sell electricity back into the grid. The disadvantages are high up-front costs and much longer periods to recoup those initial costs. The advantages are far greater independence from the grid. In a long-term power outage, a system that has some storage capability will allow far greater independence. You may still need a generator for occasional peak loads but there’s a huge difference to running a generator continuously for 20 days verses only needing to run the generator for a few hours a day over 20 days. Again, I can’t begin to tell you what’s best. I see the storage type systems more as tools for independence from the grid than I do as money saving systems.

All of that being said, electricity is NEVER going to become less expensive. It will only continue to become more expensive. America has enjoyed cheap electrical power for many decades, that is coming to an end. Does that mean solar is a good idea for you? The only person that can answer that question is you.
 
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smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Installation is free, but I'm assuming you're locked into a sale or lease deal on the panels for a period of time. If something happens with your job and you have to sell your house and move, do you keep paying for the panels? Do you have to find a buyer willing to take over the lease/payoff agreement? Does your homeowner's ins. cover the panels if (Heaven forbid) your house burns down? Will the panels survive a bad hail storm? Once you've paid off the panels will they still be worth something?

Not against solar. Had solar water heating for a while in SoCal. With a 50% tax credit it took 10 years to break even, then got about 4 years of good service out of them before parts started going bad, company long gone, replacement parts could be found at exorbitant prices.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Luckily I live where electricity is $.034 for the first 600 kWts and $.042 for the more. Hydro electric is wonderful, build more dams.

Doubt it'll stay that way. We have two hydroelectric dams here. Power isn't sold to locals though, power from the dams is sold into the grid and sold back to us. Still far better electric rates than I had in CA. Electric will continue going up everywhere.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Luckily I live where electricity is $.034 for the first 600 kWts and $.042 for the more. Hydro electric is wonderful, build more dams.
I'm with you. Hydroelectric is a great source of electricity. It's clean, renewable, reliable. I’ve seen TVA dams and they were good for flood control and the generation of electrical power. You get a reservoir for a water supply, you get a recreational lake for boating and fishing, and you get power. It’s a win win. However, there are only so many places where you can build an effective dam for power generation. And you better have a LOT of money when you start. The projects are huge and incredibly expensive to build (although they do have a long service life).

The environmentalists tree huggers that hate coal and natural gas, surprisingly hate dams just as much.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Installation is free, but I'm assuming you're locked into a sale or lease deal on the panels for a period of time. If something happens with your job and you have to sell your house and move, do you keep paying for the panels? Do you have to find a buyer willing to take over the lease/payoff agreement? Does your homeowner's ins. cover the panels if (Heaven forbid) your house burns down? Will the panels survive a bad hail storm? Once you've paid off the panels will they still be worth something?

Not against solar. Had solar water heating for a while in SoCal. With a 50% tax credit it took 10 years to break even, then got about 4 years of good service out of them before parts started going bad, company long gone, replacement parts could be found at exorbitant prices.
Lots of good questions. Not all plans are the same and there are many different schemes.

Some are basically loans with your house being the collateral. Think of it as a second mortgage exclusively for the solar panels. There’s a lien on the property that must be satisfied if the property is sold.

Some plans you buy the panels outright and pay yourself back with the reduced electrical costs over time

Some are leases, usually large ground arrays that are not attached to structures, and the leases are long term.

There are variations beyond these. You have to understand your particular agreement and run the numbers before you sign.

As for hail damage, that can be an issue, but the newer panels are pretty tough. Never say never but the odds are getting better.

Fire damage – if the panels are attached to the structure and appraised with that structure; they’re likely covered under a homeowner’s policy. Good question to ask.

Panels degrade over time. Some degrade more than others but the loses can be predicted and compensated for in the original design. They produce less power over time, but the curve doesn’t bottom out, it flattens out. The output doesn’t go down to zero.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Lots of good questions. Not all plans are the same and there are many different schemes.

Some are basically loans with your house being the collateral. Think of it as a second mortgage exclusively for the solar panels. There’s a lien on the property that must be satisfied if the property is sold.

Some plans you buy the panels outright and pay yourself back with the reduced electrical costs over time

Some are leases, usually large ground arrays that are not attached to structures, and the leases are long term.

There are variations beyond these. You have to understand your particular agreement and run the numbers before you sign.

As for hail damage, that can be an issue, but the newer panels are pretty tough. Never say never but the odds are getting better.

Fire damage – if the panels are attached to the structure and appraised with that structure; they’re likely covered under a homeowner’s policy. Good question to ask.

Panels degrade over time. Some degrade more than others but the loses can be predicted and compensated for in the original design. They produce less power over time, but the curve doesn’t bottom out, it flattens out. The output doesn’t go down to zero.
I asked these questions.

1) I would be leasing. 100% of maintiance & repair is on utility.

2) NO liens on my property.

3) Its ATTACHED to home NOT COVERED by most unless specfically underwritten. In other words, Id have to have included. BUT 2M umbrella is included with "package" to cover fire or act of god issues hurricane/Tornado.
4) Have been impervious to Hail. But if damaged 100% on utility.
5) Cost cannot increase more than 2.84% yearly. On average of last 5 its been under 1.25%
25 year term and Is transferable. If I where to sell & potential buyers where iffy I could call utility & they would arrange a sit down to explain positives & all costs. But frankly they would have it easier cause THERE insurance would cover it. Also probable they vould roll into there mortgage pmt & own outright. Then just buy a service agreement.
They forcast in writing the panels efficency will not drop past 10% less than 10.2k or will be replaced in first 25(35) years.
CW
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I don't like taking any subsidies either. But the Government is screwing with everything. So in the mean time I need to be able to afford to stay warm and in the light.

The tracking systems are cost prohibitive now that panels are about 1/3 of what they were.

Rick I was think you had a gensest system just could not remember.

I believe in owning your system up front, can't speak to the "middle man" thing as there are probably protections for the middle man that new cost can be passed on to the end user.

We were insalling systems from $13,000 to $22,000 for the average home, a one time cost. But, every region has different laws and utility controls.
A sad state of affairs when your choice is don't participate in what amounts to a corrupt system and lose your shirt or participate and effectively support the corruption. I'll leave it at that, lest I delve into things politic.