Remingtons 360 Buckhammer

Jeff H

NW Ohio
....I do understand the why, but... the 100 plus year old cartridges like the 30-30, 32spl, 38-55, 30-40, 35 Rem, 45-70, on and on Work just fine....
Absolutely true. ODNR knows that. It's about politics, for one thing, and trying to set reasonable, yet equitable and not too terribly complex and cumbersome rules to head off every potential "cheater" at the pass. It rather keeps it simple for all of us for the sake of watching out for the few who would press the limits and make an argument of/for carrying a 50 BMG, because of twisted interpretations of legal verbiage.

That said, I suspect that some day, it could happen that we see some specific cartridges like that "make the list." This is where "dumb" minimum KE limits come in. One must remember that people here can debate and argue based on logic, but people here are NOT the majority of those who get a rifle out once a year.

I would LOVE to hunt with my 30/30, but the 357 Mag/Max will work just fine and is vastly more versatile otherwise than the 30/30 for me, so I can't complain. It may well be added in the future, but getting a foot in the door initially, overcoming non-hunter myth in the minds of many was a big achievement, just like hunting doves on Sunday, which had nothing to do with archaic "blue laws" or anything remotely related to conservation. It took a big effort, it passed and all those who didn't want it just because they didn't want the blood of doves on their hands have forgotten it.

We're getting there and I appreciate what hunters, ODNR and some politicians have done to steer a big, bulky ship. It's a slow process.

Not a knock on other parts of the country...
Thank you for that. Hunting in Ohio, for the vast majority is not an economic necessity. It once was for me, until it got more expensive to hunt than to buy "meat" from a store. It's a thing to do and few, at least in this part of the state would starve if they didn't get out.

If it weren't for certain patient people, able to finesse a topic, rather than just expect everyone to see the sense in things, we'd still be stuck with shotgun slugs only.
 

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
In my opinion the only justification for the Remington Buckhammer is to qualify in “straight wall, 1.8” “ states.

This thread has gotten me to think about something Spindrift pointed out about gun ownership in Europe. The number of guns you can own is limited, thus people own change-barrel guns. One action/ stock, several barrels. In thinking about what I would do if I were in his situation, I would choose an action with the bolt face common to the Mausers, 30-06, etc (.473” ?, I think) and I would have barrels in 35 Whelen, 308 Winchester, and 22-250 Remington. I would also have a rifle in 22LR and that would more than satisfy all my NEEDS. WANTS, well that’s another matter. I have a lot of guns. More than I NEED.
 
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Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
In my opinion the only justification for the Remington Buckhammer is to qualify in “straight wall, 1.8” “ states.

This thread has gotten me to think about something Spindrift pointed out about gun ownership in Europe. The number of guns you can own is limited, thus people own change-barrel guns. One action/ stock, several barrels. In thinking about what I would do if I were in his situation, I would choose an action with the bolt face common to the Mausers, 30-06, etc (.473” ?, I think) and I would have barrels in 35 Whelen, 308 Winchester, and 22-250 Remington. I would also have a rifle in 22LR and that would more than satisfy all my NEEDS. WANTS, well that’s another matter. I have a lot of guns. More than I NEED.
That's the beauty of the Savage system. CPA 44-1/2 actions also provide that flexibility. Several BPCR shooters I know have CPA actions and usually own a heavy silhouette caliber barrel, a Schuetzen caliber barrel and a .22LR barrel.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
I would choose an action with the bolt face common to the Mausers, 30-06, etc (.473” ?, I think) and I would have barrels in 35 Whelen, 308 Winchester, and 22-250 Remington. I would also have a rifle in 22LR and that would more than satisfy all my NEEDS. WANTS, well that’s another matter. I have a lot of guns. More than I NEED.
Sounds like some good solid logic to me.

Ben
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
i enjoy the kibitzing and kicking around of new stuff.

some of them i don't like right off the Bat, maybe for what they could-should be, or for what they ain't IMO.
someone else has a legitimately perfectly good use for them.

i like the 30-30.
but for years i bought and sold several of them in the same day, i diin't have a lot of use for the cartridge for what i was doing with guns back then.

now?
i like it, it makes holes in paper, and works great on rabbits.... grouse too..LOL seriously.
i've even taken one deer hunting a time or two,, had to watch a few deer just slowly walk away while i was trying to add up those last 20 or so yds. and figure the drop.
coulda just lined up the scope from one of my other rifles and stroked the trigger.
then again i was really wishing i had it with me when i shot my biggest deer ever,, at a whopping 25 foot.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
For us the specialized case is a non-issue . Cut off a 30-30/32WS/375 case and run it through the size die fill up the case with something slow and stick a VW in it . I mean a 158 SWC with a 40kpsi push for 14 of 18" is going to get you well over 2000 fps . About 35 gr of 4350 runs a 35-250 2100 fps out a 22" 358 Win . The case will hold 42 just to the neck as I recall . A compressed load of 4831 in the buck hammer should drive a 200 about the same with 20" or so .

Switch barrels taken one step farther .
Start with the shortest and buy assorted reamers in caliber making sure each one will clean up the whole chamber as the throat goes away .
.473 rims
22-250 ..... I'm sure there's a 22×57 ......
243, 6mm Rem AI
250 Sav , 25 Souper , 257 Roberts AI , 25-06'AI
6.5 CM , 260 Rem, 6.5×55 , 6.5-06
7-08 , 7×57 AI , 280 AI
300Sav ,308 , 7.65 Mann(?AI) , 06' AI or 30 Gibbs
8×57 , 8-06'
338 FC 338-06'AI
358 win 9×57 AI , 35 Whelen
I'm sure there's more filed under just cut the next case length deeper . Add in a couple bolt heads and you can add another on the bottom of each of those in a 223 , 6.8 , or x39 case .
Savage is pretty handy but imagine how handy a half hex/round would be with fitted barrels in an aluminum chassis or a hook spanner to hold the action you wouldn't have to touch the sights or action screws . Just hook the spanner over the action and a box end wrench on the barrel and unscrew it .

Oh the joys of a switch barrel triple Drilling . A 12 to 20ga scaled action with a full/mod , mod/cyl , or mod x paradox over pick a cartridge with a rim . Double up on a rimmed rifle or pistol over a 410 , 28 ,or 20 ga . A guy could have a triple 28 ga full/mod/paradox for hogs while quail hunting. .
28" barrels the same length as a 22" bolt gun or 26" pump .
Yeah they did/do build break actions that are rated 12 ga at 75 kpsi . Perazzi is one as I recall .

Nope never considered such things .
 

todd

Well-Known Member
i enjoy the kibitzing and kicking around of new stuff.

some of them i don't like right off the Bat, maybe for what they could-should be, or for what they ain't IMO.
someone else has a legitimately perfectly good use for them.

i like the 30-30.
but for years i bought and sold several of them in the same day, i diin't have a lot of use for the cartridge for what i was doing with guns back then.

now?
i like it, it makes holes in paper, and works great on rabbits.... grouse too..LOL seriously.
i've even taken one deer hunting a time or two,, had to watch a few deer just slowly walk away while i was trying to add up those last 20 or so yds. and figure the drop.
coulda just lined up the scope from one of my other rifles and stroked the trigger.
then again i was really wishing i had it with me when i shot my biggest deer ever,, at a whopping 25 foot.

the 30-30 was my first rifle. i killed my first buck (barely legal spike) and first doe. first red fox, grouse, pheasant, squirrels, rabbits, groundhogs and a bunch of others. i still have it, but i sent it to JES and he did a rebore in 35/30-30. i love that gun. the only other thing i have done with m94 is a Willams FP aperture sight, i couldn't "see" the open sights, so i got that and my prescription eye glasses. i should have gone to JES years ago. boy i was dumb.

Winchester screwed the pooch by not going to the 35/30-30.
 

twodot

Member in Montana
Maybe the rumor is true, a feller over on leverguns-dot-com posted pictures of a piece of 360 Buckhammer brass that he picked up from the ground at his shooting range.
..
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I read today that 50k is operating chamber pressure the this caliber.

CW

357 Max, is 40kpsi and 30/30 is 42kpsi,... I think.

That's a big bump. TOO big, I think.

I need to find a single source where everything is listed in PSI. All my manuals list either/or, depending on the cartridge and it's a pain to make comparisons.
 

Mainiac

Well-Known Member
Well,,,,,,,,,

I suppose a feller could blend two parts 748, three parts H335, two parts Ball-C, and one part H414 and come up with something. Oh, wait, Hodgdon already did: it's called "LeverEvolution". Drop the 748 and make it equal parts the others and you got "Superformance".
When i used to shoot ibs hunter benchrest,,i shot v-133 mostly.my gunsmith put me onto 50/50 v130,and 133,mixed,,,he called it 131 1/2,,,it allowed more speed,133 is a compressed load,in the 30 wildcat,i was shooting.
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
Moleman developed the 357 rimless max from the 223 basic case for the Michigan straight wall regulations. It worked fine in the ar15. I built one for a friend in iowa but got frustrated with being unable to develop a load that would shoot less than 1.75moa and abandoned the project. As far as I'm concerned, the ar15, ugly as it is should do better than 1moa.
Other than the .355 vs .358, Winchester's legend is Moleman's development.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I knew they cheated on pressure, that's the only way. I don't think it's worth 10K psi increase for 80 fps. As handloaders we got options.

I'd rather they cheated by using a 30" test barrel.

Makes me wonder how limiting 50kPSI will be regarding what it can be chambered in.