Remingtons 360 Buckhammer

richhodg66 said:

Well, just did a little looking and it seems Mossberg has discontinued the 464, haven't kept up on current events I guess.

Click to expand...

Well, that's a bummer. Their prices were actually closer to my 1995 budget than any of the others.

I keep feeling guilty about not having a 357 or 30/30 repeater.

I never shot one, but I liked the 464. Was always of the mind that had they made a long barrels version with the two-thirds magazine tube and pistol grip stock, it would have sold, at least to me it would.

they went the tacticool route, but not in a lever dude kind of way.
nobody wants a 5 round assault rifle.

They made a stainless laminate one which was interesting, but just the standard deer rifle should have been a good seller. I wanted one when I got around to it, I'm sorry to see them gone.

A reasonably priced, decent, traditional looking (more or less) lever action rifle on the market is something that has always been the case in America until fairly recently. The Winchester 94 was the "every man's deer rifle" and is no more. I also found the tang safety Mossberg used easier to take for some reason than the crossbolts Winchester and Marlin started putting on their's. Not sure why. Easy to scope like Marlins too.

Damn, now I need to find a good one to get my hands on before they dissappear completely. So many guns, so little money and time.

More info. Randy Wakeman talks with the Remington guy. Speeds are listed from a 20" barrel.

not sayin nuthin,,, but i ain't a fan of Randy's.

hmm single shot and a 357 max reamer?

fiver said:

not sayin nuthin,,, but i ain't a fan of Randy's.

hmm single shot and a 357 max reamer?

Click to expand...

Not on one chambered in 360BH, but pretty sure they make it in 357 Mag. I opened up a 357 Mag Handi-Rifle to 357 Max by hand, and it took longer to unpackage the borrowed reamer and then clean it back up than to cut the chamber.

I had bought one of the AAC/H&R 300 BLK carbines for $200 new and had it rebored to 357 Mag. The job was not done properly and the brass on moderate loads came out looking like miniature 38-55 cases - when they didn't split. Before junking the barrel, I decided what the heck. I reamed it and shot it a bit. A 5# (if that) 357 Max with 190 grain bullets won't batter you, but you surely know it's not the toy that it looks like.

The thing with h&r is the chambers are so deep that is why a few twist from a reamer an you now had a new cartridge. My 45 colt chamber was 0.01" short of a 454 casull. It would close on one if you slammed it shut. Then you have the longest throat made after the chamber length.

I had a 223 bull barrel h&r and you could not reach the rifling with a 60 gr vmax seated out. The bullet would not be in the case if it touched the rifling. That was the longest bullet I had at the time. I've also had 2 of their 3030's. Now I wish I still had one. Sending it out for a rebore would be a lot cheaper. The last one I had I sold to a friend that turned it into a smokeless muzzleloader.

Very true!

I have also reamed at least a doz H&R's to different Cartridges. Maxis are cake. Contenders to 327 from 32 H&R took a lil longer. 71 WSM and 17 Hornets from 17 M2 or HMR took most of what I have done. Turning rims in 308's to run 307 brass was cake too. I turned a 35 Rem to 356 and that was about same as the 17's.

I liked the H&Rs for tinkering and love the Maxi. Ill have at least one for ever. My Savage 24 Maxi is a prize grail gun for me. My factory H&R Maxi is a gem thats taken dozens of deer and a few pigs too.

Hope this 360 sees as much in good times.

CW

Tomme boy said:

The thing with h&r is the chambers are so deep that is why a few twist from a reamer an you now had a new cartridge. My 45 colt chamber was 0.01" short of a 454 casull. It would close on one if you slammed it shut. Then you have the longest throat made after the chamber length.
...........

Click to expand...

And weren't the 45-70s SHORT? I think I remember Tim, fro GBO having a reamer to correct that too.

For all their warts, they were (are) neat little guns to mess with. It would be a good platform to tinker with the 360BH, even if you had to have someone else rechamber it. If it didn't please, or brass dried up, you could use 30/30 brass or take it out further to 35/30. No feed-issues to consider, so tougher to go terribly wrong with the single-shot.

I have twice read now that the 30/30 chamber cannot be re cut (cleaned out) by a 360 BH reamer. Someone wrote on CB that they spoke with JES & he said NO.

But cursory look dosen't reflect that. But I haven't seen SAMMI drawings of BH yet.

.30-30 shoulder is bigger than the BH, you can tell by looking at a 35-30 case.

I have on of the .45 Colt NEF/H&Rs and the chamber is cut very deep, it will close on a fired .454 Casull case. Chamber cast reveals a sort of torpedo-nose shape to the front end of the chamber, and a short tapered throat. I would have reamed it to .460 S&W Magnum except the overall diameter of the chamber is too large. IIRC 40/60May offered me use of a reamer to make it a rimmed cartridge of some sort that I don't recall (cleans up the long, Colt rifle-style chamber completely) but I didn't want yet another oddball chambering. One day I'll probably stub the barrel for a 1:7 .300 Blackout.

CWLONGSHOT said:

I have twice read now that the 30/30 chamber cannot be re cut (cleaned out) by a 360 BH reamer. Someone wrote on CB that they spoke with JES & he said NO.

But cursory look dosen't reflect that. But I haven't seen SAMMI drawings of BH yet.

Click to expand...

From the point of 1.80" from the base of a fired 30/30 case forward, is it possible that the 30/30 chamber is too big for the groove diameter for the .358" bullet? There may be enough "meat" for the OD of the new case neck, but is there enough to get a proper .3585 or .359" "ball-seat" or "throat" for the intended bullets at that point along the length of the 30/30 chamber?

I also wonder if the new brass will be based on the actual raw material and initial drawing tooling for 30/30 or even if maybe the necks will be thicker.

Without the drawing, we can only guess, I guess.

The loaded .30-30 neck comes out about .328 all the way to the base. It's the shoulder that's the issue. Look at a picture of a .35-30 cartridge on the internet and the problem becomes obvious.

Pretty sure the .360BH brass is thicker in the walls and web per the articles posted. It would need to be anyway at least in the head area to support 10K more pressure than SAAMI maximum for the .30-30.

Scratch what I just said, go back to what Ian said.

OK,.... Ian did it to me again. Beat me to each of my last two (including this one) posts.

I must be getting slow.

This is RELATIVE, because I'm comparing CASES, not CHAMBERS:

According to the CASE dimensions, in my Speer #14, the 30/30 case is .4013" in diameter at 1.4405" (the shoulder) from the base - .03595" SHORT of 1.80"

Using the .357 Mag case as a general reference, the diameter at the mouth/"neck" would/should be in the neighborhood of .379"

That would leave a .0223" difference in diameter, divided by TWO, leaving a .01115" annular groove in the chamber.

I vote: "no, it won't work."

But, who knows what they might change if they don't respect the States' game laws enough to do some actual research, like Winchester did?

I wasn't thinking about it entirely from the angle of reboring a .30-30, you're right about the throat. Aside from game laws, the .35-30 seems to be an obvious and fantastic upgrade, look at Todd's reports from his Model 94.

OK so shoulder diameter. Maybe if ya pull bbl and shorten the chamber end some.

CW

what i wanted with my 35/30 was to take a 270-275gr Bullshop Stomper (wfn gc) and hunt deer/black bear with it. i like big heavyweight boolits at low to moderate velocities because most of my deer are well under 60 yards. but i use a 200gr RCBS FN GC with 2400 under a tuft of dacron that goes 1726fps, well under a 35 rem or a 360BH. although i did at the target range a 200gr RCBS and Rel7 that was going either 2000 or 2100fps+/- (i forget) it was something like, but not quite a 35 Rem. i will say it again, Winchester screwed the pooch on NOT bringing the public out on the 35/30 in 1894.

if you ask me, personally, both the 350 Legend and the 360 BH are not needed, but just in case, the stupid game laws in whatever state still comply.

todd said:

....the stupid game laws in whatever state still comply.

Click to expand...

Easy there, friend.

Todd, if you don't know that I think the world of you, that's my fault, so I ask that you view my commentary on the topic as clarification, not argument, and that I present it more for the "masses" who see or hear that perspective often but don't possess your background, skill and discipline. Not everyone who reads this forum is a member.

There are reasons for some of these laws, which are actualy valid and logical even to us as shooters and hunters, but I do FULLY understand how stupid these laws look to anyone who hasn't had to work toward achieving them. In Ohio, at least, they are all a step UP and OUT of older, tighter restrictions, as opposed to a step DOWN and INTO newer, tighter restrictions.

In Ohio, we have a "straightwall" limitation, but don't have the 1.8" case length restriction, so THAT limitation looks "stupid" to me too, but I don't have the whole story from other states. It is also very possible that those states are working to ease THAT part of their own restrictions, just as certain retrictions in Ohio have been, by hunters and the ODNR. Much of our law was originally composed of compromises to counter or appease the unfounded arguments of someone who's vote could make a difference. That person could get on the right side AND save face with the compromises. As the State continues to not fall into the predicted abyss of murder and mayhem, other people are more easily convinced and many of the improvements upon these laws are more easily enacted and with hardly any fanfare or negative press.

A LOT of Ohio, is fairly densely populated very FLAT and I can see for miles in most directions, with the only "backstops" being the occasional wood-lot, homes (like mine), barns, cows, tractors,... Varmint hunters can use whatever they want, but are typically cool, careful, contemplative INDIVIDUALS, shooting fragile bullets as precisely as possible, as opposed to carloads of unfamiliar, once-a-year "deer-hunters" who drive deer into ambush, where much stouter bullets are used - and these guys come out of the woodwork. I'm OK with our law. I don't want to be the backstop for one of these guys' high SD, high BC, 1,000 yard target projectiles they think they need to shoot at a deer 50 or 60 yards away.

I don't want to start an argument or spawn a tenth or eleventh tangent to the original topic, so I'll shut up now.

When we were forced to hunt deer with shotguns in basically the southern half of Wisconsin, we would have jumped on the chance to hunt with straight walled rifle cartridges. What we could not understand was why we could use a TC Encore in .308, or a Contender in .30-30 or .35 Remington but not in a rifle. Then CWD reared its ugly head and shortly thereafter the DNR was hoping for higher kill totals and suddenly .300 Weatherby magnums and .223's were legal. Of course nothing untoward has happened, and perhaps the straight walled cartridges in rifles will be a stepping stone. Even if they are not, I would take a .360 BH over a 12 gauge any day for deer. No hesitation, just the reduction in recoil would sway me. Now as to the perfect platform? A Ruger #1 with a Leupold M8 4X would be a delight.