Cleaning up a New Service for a friend

JonB

Halcyon member
A newly acquainted friend asks me, "you know about guns and stuff right?"
I start a long detailed explanation of my experience with shooting.
He cuts me off, and asks, "I have a 45 and a 44 that have been in my shed for many years, do you want to check them out for me? to see if they are safe to shoot?".

I say, "sure".

A few days later he shows up with a duffle bag with two holstered revolvers.
one is a German made 357mag SA revolver marked "Arminius", but it's exactly like the EAA bounty hunter. It was in a moldy/mildewy leather holster, two inches of the outer barrel (near muzzle) was rusted up good. The rest of the gun looked good, real nice case colors on the frame ...Oh, it's missing the firing pin.

The other gun is why I am taking the time to post.
It's a Colt New Service in 44 spl.
The good news is the internals seem very good mechanically, smooth action, tight cylinder, tight lockup, good rifling, the throats are a bit large at .433 to .434
The bad...the bluing is real flaky and bad on one side, fair condition on other side, the wood grips are chipped on the bottom...But worst of all someone tried to scratchout the caliber stamping on the barrel and the colt emblem under the wood grips. Who would do that?

I did some searching, the serial number put it at 1920 mfg. There are two of these on gunbroker with buy it now ($1150, and $1350), but they were in real nice condition. 44 spl is kind of rare in these, I thought a nice one would be worth more? I mean the python's bring stupid high prices ($2k+) ...why doesn't one of these? Anyone here have an idea what this one with poor exterior condition would be worth? I'm guessing $600 to $700. My friend asked me to find a value.
Disclaimer: This gun isn't for sale, to me or anyone else.

full view.jpg

full view other side.jpg

barrel engraving scratchout II.jpg

Stock photo borrowed from Hallowell & Co, sourced from a google search
stock photo from Hallowell n Co barrel stamping.jpg
Stock photo borrowed from Hallowell & Co, sourced from a google search
stock photo from Hallowell n Co frame logo.jpg
 

Wiresguy

Active Member
Hi Jon:
Do the grips have any identifying marks inside? I'm wondering if they are Sandersons. If so, might be worth a bit in themselves.
It looks like someone installed a rifle ramp and front sight. What does the rear look like?
Overall, it has the appearance of a gun that once belonged to an owner who was a serious shooter. Too bad it got left in a shed.
Regards
Ron
 

Ian

Notorious member
Man, that's sad. Where'd the rust go? I assume you have already cleaned all that up.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
If they tried to scratch out 44 Spec they might have tried rechambering it something else. As cast of the chamber is in order.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
500$ or so might be stretching things.
I would look that front sight over real good for some markings too.
someone was real serious about target shooting at some point.

you should be able to replace the firing pin on that revolver pretty easily.
you just need to make sure of the hole in the bushing in the frame if they used one.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Horsewhipping.....nope, guess that would be a problem, but that was the first thing
I thought of for the people that let that happen to nice guns.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Horsewhipping.....nope, guess that would be a problem, but that was the first thing
I thought of for the people that let that happen to nice guns.

I know what you mean, but we have to remember that at one time that New Service was "just an old gun", just like all those pre-64 Winchesters were, and those beautiful old Stevens and Remington Hepburns that were "customized" into varmint rigs for 22 Hornets and 220 Swifts.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
not only that but there have been periods of time where ammo was not to be found at any cost or at such a substantial cost it wasn't worth the effort.
it wasn't too long ago that was a 40-50$ gun, and shortly afterwards a box of 44 specials was close to 30$
 

pokute

Active Member
Hi Jon:
Do the grips have any identifying marks inside? I'm wondering if they are Sandersons. If so, might be worth a bit in themselves.
It looks like someone installed a rifle ramp and front sight. What does the rear look like?
Overall, it has the appearance of a gun that once belonged to an owner who was a serious shooter. Too bad it got left in a shed.
Regards
Ron

They look like Sanderson's to me too. The grips could be worth more than the gun.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
Sorry for the delay everyone (yesterday was busy in the garden and this morning I went to a county commissioners meeting). Thanks for all the comments and questions, I got more photos to post.

Man, that's sad. Where'd the rust go? I assume you have already cleaned all that up.
The photos in the OP are "before", you can see some verdigris on one of the frame screws. There is some rust on the hammer and hammer area of the frame where a sweaty thumb might sit...also some rust under the wood grips.

Someone else must have de-rusted this pistol where all the pitting and splotchy bluing is. Which leads me to believe that the two areas where I thought they were scratching out the caliber and logo, is just Bubba removing rust scale with a blade screwdriver or steel putty knife.

can you see the colt logo?
I can't see it either :(
frame engraving logo.jpg
 
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JonB

Halcyon member
Hi Jon:
Do the grips have any identifying marks inside? I'm wondering if they are Sandersons. If so, might be worth a bit in themselves.
It looks like someone installed a rifle ramp and front sight. What does the rear look like?
Overall, it has the appearance of a gun that once belonged to an owner who was a serious shooter. Too bad it got left in a shed.
Regards
Ron
Grip Photos. No markings that I can see.

outsides.jpg

insides.jpg

chipped areas.jpg

backstrap.jpg
 

JonB

Halcyon member
Hi Jon:
Do the grips have any identifying marks inside? I'm wondering if they are Sandersons. If so, might be worth a bit in themselves.
It looks like someone installed a rifle ramp and front sight. What does the rear look like?
Overall, it has the appearance of a gun that once belonged to an owner who was a serious shooter. Too bad it got left in a shed.
Regards
Ron
Sights. Front is marked "Redfield". Fun Fact: I didn't see that marking, till I looked at the enlarged photos on the computer screen.

front REDFIELD view 450px.jpg

front side view II 450px.jpg

front top view 450px.jpg

rear side view 450px.jpg

rear topview 450px.jpg


Fun Fact #2
I ALSO didn't see this engraving/stamping on the top of the barrel til the photo was enlarged, LOL.
barrel engraving top.jpg
 

JonB

Halcyon member
If they tried to scratch out 44 Spec they might have tried rechambering it something else. As cast of the chamber is in order.
Great thought. I never thought of doing a chamber cast on a revolver...but I can say this, a live round (44 spl) fits into the chambers like it is correct. A fired 44 spl shell (unsized) fits in the chamber snuggly, just as I'd expect it would. The photo below has the fired 44 spl shell in the top chamber and you can make out that the beginning of the throat is nearby. The other chambers are empty

cylinder throats.jpg
 

pokute

Active Member
I'm going to say that the grips are very early Sanderson style grips made by someone following Sanderson's frame-filling design. I have seen similar grips lacking the thumb support with varying quality of checkering. I think this gun would make a dandy project for restoration as an early "custom" target gun! As for overall value, unfortunately not much.
 
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Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Great thought. I never thought of doing a chamber cast on a revolver...but I can say this, a live round (44 spl) fits into the chambers like it is correct. A fired 44 spl shell (unsized) fits in the chamber snuggly, just as I'd expect it would. The photo below has the fired 44 spl shell in the top chamber and you can make out that the beginning of the throat is nearby. The other chambers are empty

View attachment 5946


Just for giggles, try a 44 Mag round and see if it sticks out like it should. Probably will, but with the scratching I'd check just to be sure. Even if it does chamber, it still might be a good shooter.