I need a bigger hammer

fiver

Well-Known Member
I can send you up a box of 165-A's too if you think they'd work.
their meplat would turn the trick at even a sedate 2200 or so on top of some 4895.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
I think the 30 sil will lends itself pretty well to taking a little bit of jump on the initial launch in the AR platform. Should also feed well.

Part of me is dreading you shooting good groups with it because I will want one.
 

Ian

Notorious member
You already sent me some 165As....thanks for the reminder. The .180" meplat was an ugly go in my M1A due to the almost vertical feed ramp (half the meplat chipped/smeared off, bent necks, etc) but I bet it feeds fine in the AR. We'll see. Oh, and I still have a sack of those 4/6 XCB bullets too, although I suspect the 30 SIL will shoot better than those if a softer alloy is the choice for hunting.

The .30 Sil moulds I just got were for the M1A originally, before this project, but I was able to get some very presentable groups from the first mould long ago. The problem for me was the bullets cast too large and the gas check shank was so fat that it required expanding checks to install them and then a ring of lead was shaved off when sizing. Total PITA.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I was surprised they didn't work in your M-1 my Norinco took them like a champ.
I don't know what magazines I have though none of them are marked.

the xcb's do have that smaller meplat going for them, I have found the higher speeds and a smaller nose shape is a little better combination for not destroying half the animal.
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I know Sierra says don't hunt with their MatchKings, but I have a friend who has taken a number
of deer with an AR15 in 5.56 and 69gr MKs thru the lungs. Have you had actual experience
hunting with the 168gr .308 MKs? I have put a lot of them into the berm over the years in
matches, practice and load development, but never shot one at fur.

Bill
 
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Ian

Notorious member
But I WANT to destroy half of the animal.

Like normal for me, I have the one odd duck SA ever produced. Joe has the same one but with the NM barrel and he has no trouble with his feeding .280 Meplats. I've replaced the recoil spring guide and further worked on the mag hook, been through a dozen mags (mostly Checkmate and some unmarked imports that are pretty good), polished the ramp, done everything short of dropping it off on Art's doorstep on the way to work along with a blank check for the exorcism. My conclusion is the magazine well isn't milled deeply enough. Another full 1/16 would do it. Or radius the bottom of the chamber. Spreading the mag lips a little at the front seemed to help some, as did tweaking the side guide tabs on the front slightly to aim the noses better. It feeds spitzers pretty well and gobbles up the Lee 312-160 if it's powder coated. I was gonna build a real M14 semi-auto but for that kind of money I could buy 3-4 M1 Garands. So screw it, I built an LR-308 that weighs two pounds less and we'll see how many headaches that eliminated.....or created.

Will.....we'll see. Last time I shot the M1A with cast at iirc 2350-ish fps it put ten into 1.5" at 100 yards, all fed from the magazine. It didn't even fling the first one from charging it by hand. If this cheapo-fantastico PSA lightweight barrel can do that, I'll be happy enough.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I know Sierra says don't hunt with their MatchKings, but I have a friend who has taken a number
of deer with an AR15 in 5.56 and 69gr MKs thru the lungs. Have you had actual experience
hunting with the 168gr .308 MKs? I have put a lot of them into the berm over the years in \
matches, but never shot one at fur.

Bill

I'm leaning on Freebullet's experience with this mostly. I killed a big boar a few years ago with Hornady match ammo from the M1A and tried lining up a second one for a 2-fer but the bullet blew up just inside the shield. A jacket fragment got into the spine just aft of the shoulder and cut off the electrical power. Softball-sized grenade hole of powdered bullet was a testament to 'splody bullets, but failed to impress me as far as making two holes or breaking bones. The idea he was impressing on me is get a fragile hp into the body cavity anywhere in the boiler room area and it explodes causing massive trauma and makes shot placement less critical on multiple/moving targets. The low recoil of the .308 compared to other cartridges/platforms I had been considering and the relative light weight and compactness of a carefully built LR-308 cemented the deal for me.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Sounds like what my friend got with the 69 MKs from 5.56. He said "Don't shoot except
a good broadside shot where you can stick it into the lungs, and it will work."
Never tried it.

Do you eat the pigs? My friend just back from hunting them said that the guys at the
place where he hunted strongly discouraged him from even fooling with them, said
"MAYBE, a 50 lb or so sow would be edible, but the boars are horrible, just leave them lay."
Have never been around pigs, no idea myself, seems a waste of meat. Wild wart hog in
Africa is really superb, have eaten it.

Bill
 
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RBHarter

West Central AR
The guide I've heard most often is if it smells bad laying there after the shot it going to smell even worse if you split the hide . Even a high fence with a high percentage of farm or former farm pigs had a few stinkers . One looking very ridgeback/true wild no ear notches was black clear through and smelled like something died about a week ago in a sewer . They tell me that #150 pig is about all the bigger you want to eat them . I imagine I'll be finding out soon .
 

Ian

Notorious member
It depends on a lot of factors, RB. If it's a boar and over about 150 lbs, and in hot weather, donate it to the local turkey vulture preservation society.

Sows are usually good eats up to 300 lbs or so, but if the weather is warm you'd better get them quartered and on salted ice immediately.

What we have around these parts are a mix of Russian and domestic spanning the whole spectrum. The more coloration/spots and shorter the snout, the better the eating. I killed a pretty much pure Russian boar many years ago that smelled like a Javelina, that is I smelled it before I ever saw or heard it. About 175-200 lbs and hide like an old mud flap.
 

Hawk

North Central Texas
We killed a 425 lb. black boar on our deer lease 10 years ago. Dropped him with a neck shot, DRT.
He was fine eating. Huge tenderloins.
Dad was raised on a farm, and said it was mostly how they died. Running after shot let them get that chemical cocktail in their system and made them not fit to eat.
He said you could take your best steer, run him around a corral with a whip for 20 minutes before slaughtering him and he wouldn't be fit to eat.
Having said that, I've shot a few that smelled so bad, I just drug them off and let them feed the scavengers.
 

Hawk

North Central Texas
Dad was pretty knowledgable about farm animals, but a lot of people have more experience with wild hogs. Maybe ours just have more domesticated blood in them.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I have an offer of an unassembled .450 Bushmaster upper for $160. I have the
ability to assemble it, but is this one a 5.56 AR platform or a 7.62 AR platform?

What bolt face is required?

Seems like it would be a hog hammer.

Bill
 

Ian

Notorious member
5.56 platform. Bolt is proprietary steel with .473" bolt face, I believe to be made of sintered Pixie dust, should be included with the barrel and barrel extension as a matched set, if not I wouldn't buy it.

For more information, visit Teppo Jutsu's website.
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Not included. Why is it such a big deal? I did some searching and found the bolt for $50,
will apparently work in an ordinary carrier. A number of users had commented that they were
pleased with their purchase, one stating it solved a cycling problem he was having. Is there some
history of the bolts not fitting? I have never, ever run into an AR bolt and barrel combo that didn't
headspace, and I have assembled about 15 or so. BUT, all .223/5.56 guns no 'other calibers'.

Went to that web site, only talking about .458 SOCOM, apparently the same bolt face but much
heavier bullets seem standard in that caliber than .450 BM. How similar are the two? Brief look
shows pistol cal 45 (.452) and 250ish standard bullets vs rifle 45 cal (.458 and 500ish standard bullets).
Seems a bit apples and oranges at first look. Probably twist diffs make the BM unlikely to work well
with 500s, but that is a pure guess.

Bill
 
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Ian

Notorious member
The BM operates at higher pressures than the SOCOM and requires a bolt made of special steel. The bolts are physically similar otherwise between the two, with the ejector moved farther from bolt center and the extractors modified for the larger radius of the case head. It is ill advised to use a .45 ACP/.458 SOCOM bolt with the BM due to possible lug shear. The BM also has a much slower rate of twist typically, since it isn't designed for subsonic use with heavy bullets. The BM case staggers slightly in an AR magazine, causing bulging issues. One of the big pros to the SOCOM is the extra-fat, bottleneck case which single-stacks well in an AR magazine and center-feeds from unmodified feed lips. The bottleneck aids feeding and I've never had a single hiccup with mine. The pressure limit of the SOCOM at 35K psi is an engineering assumption extrapolated from case head diameter and bolt thrust limits established for the 5.56 NATO, and is much less than what I understand the 450 BM to be, hence the requirement for special bolt steel.

Lots of people like the BM, but caveat emptor regarding the collection of parts you have. Tony Rumore also sells 450 BM bolts and parts, you could check with his site Tromix dot com and peruse the list, but you will not be guaranteed proper headspace.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
OK, not terribly interested in it, just wondering if there was an easy "45-70 in an AR" out there.
Probably will leave it alone. Too many projects already half done. I was imagining the SOCOM
pressures would be higher due to heavier bullets.

Bill
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
you have case and bore capacity on your side with the socum.
it's why the 8 mauser duplicates the 0-6 with the same pressure mapping.
you lose on the case end but gain more on the barrel end so the expansion ratio drops faster, allowing you to use all of the powder.

that is also why the 224 Valkery is going to go pretty much nowhere once the real world numbers hit the ears of other interested people.
nobody wants to lug around a 28+ inch barreled AR-15, which is what you need to get the 22-250 velocity's.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
35,000 PSI with a .473 bolt face dishes out about all an AR15 can handle. The SOCOM can be loaded much higher... in a bolt gun. The caliber recommendations for AR15 are strikingly similar to a TC Contender in some ways. The larger the bolt face, the lower the recommended chamber pressures should be. A 55,000 PSI 5.56 cartridge produces a tolerable amount of bolt back thrust in either platform, but 55,000 PSI against a .473 bolt face is excessive for both platforms. In comparison, the 6.5 Grendel was designed around 42,000 PSI, IIRC. There are gives and takes of course, but this is pretty much what I stick with.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Bill, the Socom will easily duplicate the Trapdoor military load using the same bullet and do it from a 12 or 16" barrel.

Eta I was two exellent posts behind with this post
 
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