Movie set death

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JonB

Halcyon member
"A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza," the email said, according to Insider.

"Local 44 has confirmed that the Props, Set Decoration, Special Effects, and Construction Departments were staffed by New Mexico crew members. There were no Local 44 members on the call sheet."


 
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Bruce Drake

Active Member
Rick, any confirmation yet if the NM IATSE Local 480 was not involved or simply because the IATSE Local from Hollywood didn't get the job?
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Not enough information at this point but it's perfectly normal for actors to point guns at people (other actors and/or crew members) during filming. In fact, it is common to FIRE guns pointed at people during performances.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
There is a very old legal principal "res ipsa loquiter", which means, the thing speaks for itself. In the case at hand, the death and injury would not have happened without some serious negligence on behalf of the prop person or persons. Just who was negligent and how he/she was negligent will come out by and by. I like New Mexico and do not like Alex Baldwin, but neither of those has any bearing on the case at hand.

At any rate, the production company will have oodles of insurance and it will take a big hit.
The THING speaks for itself.

I think you have a typo there.
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
A cascade of negligence, at minimum. If the victims were not part of the acting ensemble, why was a gun pointed at them in the first place? There is much we are not hearing. Alec B may be on the hook for this faux pas, via gross negligence. Or worse.
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
A cascade of negligence, at minimum. If the victims were not part of the acting ensemble, why was a gun pointed at them in the first place? There is much we are not hearing. Alec B may be on the hook for this faux pas, via gross negligence. Or worse.
How many movies have you seen where the actor fires a gun at the camera or in the general direction of the camera, as if it was being seen from the point of view of person being shot at?
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Lots. What's your point?

Death investigations start with the presumption that the decedant was murdered. The evidence found allows you to either dial back that presumption or see it confirmed. Maintain an open mind throughout the inquiry, and let the chips fall where they may.
 
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Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
I don't know the details about the current event involving Alec Baldwin, but muzzle discipline doesn't factor into acting. When a scene calls for an actor to point, and sometimes fire, a gun at someone else; by necessity there will be NO muzzle discipline.

The errors that occur on stage, TV and movie sets come from poor control of props.

Actors point guns, usually real guns, at other people all the time. That’s just part of the scene. The safety comes from the handling of the props, including control of blanks and dummy ammunition. Poor attention to detail in the prop department will get people killed.
I agree, but why would he be pointing a gun at a director and a cinematographer?How did he hit two people? How many shots did he fire? How can blanks be that powerful, at what distance were they fired? That’s a lot of unanswered questions.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Not enough information at this point but it's perfectly normal for actors to point guns at people (other actors and/or crew members) during filming. In fact, it is common to FIRE guns pointed at people during performances.

No it is absolutely not normal for anyone to be pointing guns at crew members. Not ever not at any time. Other actors yes if and when the scene calls for it only. Had someone pointed any gun at me they would have received and instant and intense course in gun safety.
 

Elkins45

Active Member
I know it's hair splitting, but since it could obviously fire full-power ammo then it's misleading to refer to it as a "prop" gun.

It's a gun. Alec Baldwin shot those people with a gun.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I know it's hair splitting, but since it could obviously fire full-power ammo then it's misleading to refer to it as a "prop" gun.

It's a gun. Alec Baldwin shot those people with a gun.

Absolutely. I tried to explain this in an earlier post. The only thing that makes it a "prop" gun is the fact that an actor was using it on the set and handed to him by the prop master. No difference whatsoever from any other firearm, only that this firearm was being used as a prop. Not difference if were say a set of keys, they are then prop keys. Actor pouring a cup of coffee? That coffee pot is a prop coffee pot as is the cup he poured it into.
 

Elkins45

Active Member
Absolutely. I tried to explain this in an earlier post. The only thing that makes it a "prop" gun is the fact that an actor was using it on the set and handed to him by the prop master. No difference whatsoever from any other firearm, only that this firearm was being used as a prop. Not difference if were say a set of keys, they are then prop keys. Actor pouring a cup of coffee? That coffee pot is a prop coffee pot as is the cup he poured it into.
I wonder if it were Clint Eastwood or Donald Trump instead of Alec Baldwin the media would be quite so diligent in making sure they call it a "prop?"
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Guys a "stage property, i.e. prop" is anything on stage that supports the dramatic action. "Prop" does not mean fake or non-functional. In the case at hand, a real gun was used as a prop. Prop is a function not the nature of a thing.

At my age, I probably should not admit it, but my undergrad degree was in Theater Arts and I have "trod the boards" many times.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
They also said it misfired. Doesn't sound to me like it misfired, looks like it went off just fine.

Not quite Charles, it's a prop, regardless of what it is "if" an actor uses it in any way. Anything else visible in the scene is set dressing.
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
They also said it misfired. Doesn't sound to me like it misfired, looks like it went off just fine.

Not quite Charles, it's a prop, regardless of what it is "if" an actor uses it in any way. Anything else visible in the scene is set dressing.
Read again Rick, I said "supports the dramatic action" not used by an actor. Theatrical Properties are anything moveable that is used on stage to support the dramatic action. This can be chair, tables, vases, pictures on the wall or whatever else on the stage that can be picked up a moved between scenes. All props support the dramatic action in one way or another. Every decent theatrical production has a "Prop Master", whose job it is to gather, safeguard and place on stage the prop in it required place. Assistants who help in this are called "Set Dressers". If a prop is to be used by an actor, it is the Prop Masters job to see that he/or she has it when needed. I really do know what I am talking about and chose my words with care. If you don't read with equal care, that is not my problem.
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
No it is absolutely not normal for anyone to be pointing guns at crew members. Not ever not at any time. Other actors yes if and when the scene calls for it only. Had someone pointed any gun at me they would have received and instant and intense course in gun safety.
How many movies have you watched that had an actor point a gun at or near the camera to simulate the point of view of the guy being shot or shot at. Many if you have watched close. This is theater and gun safety courses do not apply. Theater has it's own gun safety protocols. That is why, there is or should be very struck oversight of the guns used. In a properly ran movie set of theatrical production, live ammo is not allowed near the production. This shooting was the result of a grossly negligence management of the prop guns. Law suits to follow!
 
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Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I won't speak to the theater and Baldwin was not in a theatrical production. That is a totally different critter from motion picture/TV productions. The prop department is run by the prop masters and his crew is simply property personnel. The tables & chairs you speak of are set dressing as is everything else visible in the scene and it's placed there by the set dressing crew not the property people or prop master. The department head of set dressing is the set decorator and his crew are set dressers. Both the property department and the set dressing department are part of the art department.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
How many movies have you watched that had an actor point a gun at or near the camera to simulate the point of view of the guy being shot or shot at. Many if you have watched close.

Reckon you didn't read this thread very closely. If you had you would have picked up on the fact that for 34 years this is what I did for a living.
 
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