Blackhawk in .32-20?

the LEE soupcan mold would be one I would be eyeballing for a project like that.
a case with a little volume would also be wanted.
it might be easier to start with a 357 max case and neck that down for a revolver.
the cylinder would be the most difficult part to access.

KeithB said:

I've made some CAD drawings of three wildcats. They use 7mm bullets and are based on a .223 case, a .30 carbine case, and a .357 case.

I think I can minimize potential setback by (a) having a near parallel section of the case near the bottom that will expand and grip the chamber walls, (b) having as gentle a taper as possible from case body to neck, and (c) minimizing the overall difference in diameter from base to case mouth. A cartridge like a .22 Jet scores low on all three criteria.

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This could be an interesting project Keith!

I remember first opening the box of .22 Jet's.... The case struck me as some abandoned child from the .300 H&H!

I vaguely remember some written justification early on for the Jet's long gentle shoulder. Remington and Winchester where in competition (almost in a race) for a fast varmint type revolver cartridge in the early 60's. Smith sided with Remington and Ruger with Winchester! The .357 Mag case was the parent cartridge for both.
Ruger found prototypes of the .256 locked up their single action. With no cure for it the Hawkeye was born and quickly died. Maybe Remington had spies? But a case design was incorporated copying what had worked in revolvers for decades...... A shoulder angle well under 10°! .32-20 worked, along with .38-40 and .44-40...... The .256 has a 25° shoulder.......

A revolver is a unique animal in that the fired chamber rotates to the next chamber. The parts are weak with little leverage (the hand)... So what I think is happening is bottleneck induced. When fired, the case thrusts back tight against the recoil plate and all longitudinal cylinder play is eliminated. In the process of seeing peak pressure the bottleneck shoulder expands tight as well. After firing the straight case or very gentle shoulder angle case can longitudinally relax enough to allow the cylinder to rotate; The sharper shoulder angle basically leaves the revolver's cylinder to tight from the case head to recoil plate for the hand to rotate it out of battery.

Pete

.....but they say Pete if the case and cylinder are void of any lubricant the case obturated to the cylinder walls and doesn't thrust back as much and is loose enough after firing to rotate the cylinder. Pain in the butt yeah, but it works! Just gotta make sure your cases have no case lube or oil on them along with the cylinders.

That Baines & Davis used a plastci collar up around the neck that I guess resolved the problem.

Get a grip! As the old saying goes. Yes if you can get a 'hold' of the chamber you can prevent the shoulder from forming forward and binding. A little like an old worn out Model 94...... I seen shoulders in different locations on brass shot in the same gun!

Pete

Moot point Pete after you resize them, no?

VZerone said:

Moot point Pete after you resize them, no?

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In general we can call it a moot point. But none the less I love to find .30-30 brass shot in a loose gun that has moved the shoulder forward! I've got one .30-30 that I headspace on the shoulder and brass like this allows me sizing to fit without the pain of moving shoulder forward hydraulically to fit.

Pete

Remember when I believe Ackley took the locking lug out of the Model 94 in 30-30 and cleaned the chamber void of any lubricate and also the same to a cartridge and fired and it didn't pop the action back? He wanted to show how a case obturates to the chamber. Nothing do with talking about the 22 Jet aside from case obturation. The 22 Jet doesn't have a definite shoulder like your 30-30 either so it doesn't matter if what's there does move or not. Agreed?

That was a .30-30 Ackley Improved and a plug for his straight case and sharp shoulder!

I size everything to set the shoulder back a miced .001" ..... That's rimless or rimmed! Even the .22 Jet if I had one... My .32-20 grouse loads don't shoot 1/2 moa or better by luck but by covering all the details. Longitudinal impact from the firing pin is never talked about. But it can move your case forward. And rimless has nothing to stop it..... Most rimmed chambers don't headspace tight enough to suit me. (Unless my Dad built the gun!) I use the shoulder all I can in reloading. So longitudinal case position being the same shot to shot is yet another variable to putting them in one hole!

My favorite thing Ackley did was chamber a Winchester Model 1897 shotgun for the .30-06! After shooting a bunch of factory loads through it and seeing the headspace not move he started with 'proof loads' as the gun manufacturers use. The '97 ate'em up! Irritated he started loading his own at super high pressure. He finally was able to blow the barrel out by the barrel threads.... The interrupted takedown threads didn't have enough engagement for the 100,000 + psi loads Ackley tried to 'blow' it with. The headspace still hadn't moved.... (Don't try this with your Model 12)

Pete

Ackley would have been a real cool guy to hang around......at distance sometimes!!!! LOL

he was cool to hang around.

Eutectic said:

That was a .30-30 Ackley Improved and a plug for his straight case and sharp shoulder!

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Yup. My 1899 standard 30-30 chamber opens the lever about 1/16" when I touch off a 27K psi load. There's some bolt thrust going on there.

A 7mm - 327 ..... No clue but it sounds like fun .
A 7mm-5.7 would be all but a straight case .

the 5.7 necks up to 7mm easy enough.

Or the obvious one; 270 REN. A 22 Hornet case straight holds a .277" bullet. And you can get dies, etc. from C&H/4D.

How much horsepower are you looking for in your wildcat? Are deer on the agenda, or something more suited for a cute little, poor defenseless bunny rabbit?

Here's a wildcat that was developed on another board I used to frequent. 257 Jackrabbit

Didn't Buckeye Shooters Supply in Ohio bring out the Blackhawks in .32-20? Seems I remember them buying half the production or something to get Ruger to make the guns.

Rally, Believe they commissioned the guns being made and sold all of them.

Thanks Ric. I remember there being some controversy over delivery dates and folks ragging on them in a couple publications.

I read Ackleys books a great deal at one point. I think he had something with his "improved" line. In certain cartridges, like the 25-35 especially, you end up with something entirely different than you stared out with at little cost and great gains. Of course trading off your 25-35 Ackley is what stops 99% of the people from trying it. A nice Marlin 336 with a 24" barrel and a 2-7 scope in 25-35 Ackley would be a very, very nice tractor and walking coyote rifle.

Keith, look at what Gary Reeder has done with bottle necks in a wheel gun. I think has necked down most everything rational there is to do.
Jeff