16" Trapper or 20" carbine

[Glaciers]

I would like some opinions here, this is bugging me. I'm going to send one of these to Jess to bore out to 38-55. But which one?
First I have a newer Winchester 94 AE saddle ring Trapper 30-30 with a 16" barrel.. I got it on trade, plan was to sell or trade stock. Can't stand Angle Ejection Winchesters. They just look wrong. If you want a scope, by a Marlin. Well then I shot the little bugger. Shot pretty good. Felt good. I figured I just keep it loaded behind the door where nobody would know I own a angle ejecte rifle.
Second I have a 1954 Winchester 94 also in 30-30. It's in nice shape, and sports a Lyman receiver site. Shoots like a dream. But someone drilled and tapped it for a side scope mount. Other then that it's in good shape. Still much higher on the scale then the AE 30-30.
Even though the carbine has a couple of extra holes, I'm hesitant to turn it into a 38-55. If I did turn it into the 38-55 I would still have 30-30's in a 1920's SRC Winchester, well then there's that Marlin, and of course the AE behind the door. So I wouldn't be without.
What I'm thinking about is with the 16" Trapper's shorter barrel and velocity loss on the 38-55. I'm mostly going to be 1100 to 1300 fps range, but there are times I'm going to want to push it. I'm thinking a 38-55 with the 375449 Lyman running about 1800 fps, would be about the ideal carry gun cartridge for this area. Either gun will get a decelerator pad for recoil and added length..
But, while I'm warming up to the AE Trapper, I just really like the original. Conflicted and confused, but one is going to Jess soon.

PS. While there are always a griz around, they are few and uncommon, mostly blacks, and a upset moose on rare occasion.

 

[Brad]

I would go with the rifle. I truly dislike the short barrels on the trappers. A rifle like that deserves a 20” barrel.
The ‘54 would be in mail already if it was mine

 

[Cherokee]

Rifle, not trapper.

 

[RicinYakima]

Same here! Had a .45 Colt trapper and balance was bad and really loud with full loads.

 

[Cherokee]

Ricin - I have a 45 Colt trapper and love it. Everybody has their preferences.

 

[RicinYakima]

Cherokee, That proves the point, what works for some doesn't work for all!

 

[Brad]

But what works for me is right!


Im not a trapper or a guide so I avoid rifles with short barrels. Not a scout either so no weird scope positioning either.

 

[fiver]

put a longer re-barrel the A/E.

 

[462]

I'm not a scout, neither, but a long eye relief scope mounted in place of the M96 Swede's rear sight gave me a more accurate rifle, without holes to decrease whatever the rifle's value. Practicality trumped appearance.

put a longer re-barrel the A/E.

Hmmm . . . I had that thought, too.

 

[StrawHat]

Another vote for the 20” carbine. While 16” might be legal, it’s just not right.

Kevin

 

[Will]

I prefer the trapper. I find that when hunting I really enjoy short barreled rifles.
And I’m not gonna lie they look good to my eye. Go with what makes you happy.

 

[Missionary]

We have a couple 16"carbines in Pistol calibers. They work well and in short barrels consume most powders well.
But rifle calibers unless loaded with "pistol" powders are going to let out a nice fireball that could precook some close beast.
Here is a 1907 made Winchester 1892 SRC 44 WCF that is a real joy to carry all day. Was reblued, badly worn /pitted muzzle with awful wood looses. Now a 16 1/8" barrel and delightfully get attached to a single point strap for walking the deserts.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I like pistol caliber short. Rifle calibers as 20" + RIFLES.

I had a H&R 38/55 chopped at 19". Light Unique loads with a 255 where fine. Heavy hunting loads where not fun.
As much as I love my Marlin Marauders I DONT AT ALL "love" there obnoxious tone when firing. I haven't shot them in over a decade!! I took my 336 LTS out last fall. Shot it a couple Times and remembered why it was in the back of the safe... Right where it is now.

357, 41, 44, 45 are fun and fine as a 16". Not so much as pressures pass 40K.

CW

 

[RBHarter]

Given all of that , I'd go with the AE rebore , the others are decent originals that aren't getting any less valuable . The AE has lived a love/hate life .

I have had a couple 92s in 45 Colts and I just didn't really see the big difference between 16&20" unless I was picking through a thicket . Report ? I don't know really that it made a huge difference .

In 38-55 or 375 and cast based on applied knowledge of powder selection , reaching , velocities , etc , you're going to get a lot of flash anyway . In the more straight cases faster rifle powders will reduce this some . Unique will be almost as bad as 4895 used to get to top speeds . One of the less old wonder powders like H322 might be the ticket for a heavy . It would offer a shorter curve with a longish push and be mostly done flashing upon exit .
A 20" inch barrel would certainly negate the flash and reduce range noise for the shooter and depending on particulars allow another round , it would certainly pay for those longer shots .

Balance for carry ..... you're looking at a guy that has a 32" , 2@30" , 2@ 28" pumps and an A5 , and hunts ducks and geese with a 26" pump or a 28" O/U because it doesn't matter when you get out of the truck but 4 oz after 6hr in the cold , wet ,muck sometimes may as well be a freight locomotive . I think it would bother me to have to carry working around the lever/trigger guard the 92's didn't present that as a problem but a little barrel down wasn't a big deal where we were afield . If it's too bad there are a number of clamp on brakes available . Truth told there's always the opinion of a Green Mountain blank and a refit that's probably within $30-40 of sending it to Jess and you can cut the 24" barrel off any where you want to . Paying a smith that is . As a bonus you get to keep the fitted indexed 30-30 barrel in case you change your mind later .

 

[fiver]

yeah,,,,, if I gotta carry it.
shortish round and a big hole down the center is my preference.
[then I want 30-06 range when it's time to shoot]

too short is,, well? it just doesn't hold well, and swings every which way after puffing up that ridge line.
24"s gets heavy awful quick making it slower to get into play and dragging you down after a nice 3 mile stroll at 45* angles.

20-21 seems to be a good compromise between feeling like you got your kids cap gun in your hands, and like your hauling a howitzer around.

 

[Glaciers]

Re-barreling is more expensive than my budget allows. The re-bore is $250 shipped. Having a known grove diameter of .377 appeals to m
I'm thinking I'm going to have the 1954 carbine converted. It already has extra holes so it will make a good candidate.. That trapper AE will just have to sit behind the door. Got to give that one a little more thought and test it out some more. It feels good but I'm not sure about the balance.

 

[Glaciers]

We have a couple 16"carbines in Pistol calibers. They work well and in short barrels consume most powders well.
But rifle calibers unless loaded with "pistol" powders are going to let out a nice fireball that could precook some close beast.
Here is a 1907 made Winchester 1892 SRC 44 WCF that is a real joy to carry all day. Was reblued, badly worn /pitted muzzle with awful wood looses. Now a 16 1/8" barrel and delightfully get attached to a single point strap for walking the deserts.

View attachment 14914

I Seem to remember there was/are a lot of Trapper 92 sold in your neck of the woods. Leroy used to come up with 12, 14, 15 inch in 38 & 44-40 from one country or another down your way. Normally had a bunch of wear on them. Did not keep him from put a big dollar price tag on them.

 

[CZ93X62]

Barrel length's beauty is in the eye of the beholder, whether long gun or short gun. Like handgun grips--a matter of taste, and very subjective.

I love my JES 38/55 rebore in a Win 94 from the 1940s. Proceed cautiously with 250 grain bullets much past 1500 FPS, though. Some of the data presented in load sources is overly enthusiastic, and I'll cite the late Ken Waters' Pet Loads tome as a serial offender. Things went well with both IMR 4198 and RL-7 to about the 1700 FPS level, then when a one-grain addition was made with no other changes--loose primer pockets resulted. This involved Lyman #375449. I lost 5 new Starline cases, and pulled bullets on the 15 remaining loads as well as 20 more with yet another grain of RL-7 on board, which would have been the listed max per the Waters data. This scared me a bit--it is one of the few times I have experienced expanded primer pockets when not Tempting Fate in magnum revolvers, my usual venue of such adventure travel. Ruger Blackhawks give ya ideas.

The 38/55 is a black-powder-era cartridge that suffers from some of the same liabilities that beset other cartridges of that vintage--bullet specs are often undersized for the arms shooting them being the chief speed bump. Once you start using bullets that fit well, the pressures that behaved in a civilized manner using undersize bullets might get a really bad attitude once the piston rings seal the bore like they are supposed to. Make haste slowly, in other words. 38/55 arms are NOT 375 Winchesters; Winchester redesigned their 1894 receiver into a "Big Bore" variant for the 375 Winchester, I don't know enough about the Marlin 336s so chambered to give worthwhile info.

 

[Glaciers]

Good info CZ. I have other cartridges/guns for more power if needed. The 375449 at 1300 to 1500 should do most any I will be looking for. Mostly will be loading under 1200.
I experienced exactly what you describe in my 458 x 2 with R7.. I was working up loads and about the second level of 4 loadings rattled my teeth, and that feeling you mention, was a road to far for me. Pulled bullets. I've not had that happen with IMR 4198. The R7 loadings I was convinced were safe, but not going there. I have heard that R7 can be twitchy. I like the powder though, it is handy in many cartridges.

 

[fiver]

the Marlin 375 is the only Marlin I have ever owned.
I really can't say how or if it's a beefed up 336 or just a smaller diameter hole in a 45-70 rifle size rifle.
whatever it is they got the balance and recoil management right.

the 94 in 375 is a beefed up version of the 30-30 rifles, the 38-55's weren't, they were just a ''re-bored'' 30 cal barrel [in profile and frame size]
I know that from accidentally swapping rifles with my buddy when we set them down next to each other one day.
I knew it instantly since he only shoots black powder in his, and I could smell it when I picked up his rifle.