1911 Help Needed

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
My 1911 Randall Service Model uses a full-length guide rod. I wanted to clean the gun after yesterday's range session, and in the process of turning the barrel bushing the plastic Brownells wrench wasn't depressing the spring/plug combination far enough and my exuberance to overcome the resistance caused the wrench to break. The wrench breaking is not bothersome, but that the spring/plug wasn't depressing enough to rotate the bushing is.

Any 1911 experts have ideas as to what and why the problem?

Thank you.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
My 1911 Randall Service Model uses a full-length guide rod.
It's been a long while since I tore down a 1911 with a full-length guide rod. But I can say that you can't turn the bushing even if you can depress the bored out spring plug because the rod is still in the way. Normally, you have a pin that you insert into the rod after pulling the slide back to compress the spring. That pin holds the spring tension and then you can remove the slide lock and take it off as an assembly, similar to the vid, only it all stays together. No needd to catch the spring.

Again, I'm going from memory as I have not stripped that 1911 in probably 20 years. If I am wrong and nobody pipes up, I'll strip it tomorrow when I get back from the match and repost. But I suspect someone else has a 1911 with a full-length guide rod here. It ain't the same as stripping a standard 1911.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Standard 1911 just use the tip of the #1 booger hook to poke down the checkered plug and swing the bushing to the right until the spring plunger and spring pop free.

Bushingless barrels require a paper clip with the tip bent to capture and pre-load the spring assembly by pulling the slide back past the take down notch to expose the hole, sticking the bent tip in it, and letting the slide back down against it, then forward a little more to line up the notch in the slide and pop out the slide stop pin.

No idea about a full-length guide rod but any of the 1911s should come apart if you pull back and hold the slide in the takedown position against spring pressure, pop out the pin, and gently release the slide all the way off the front. Putting them back together again is where the spring-capturing tricks are handy.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
You don't need to take off bushing to take it down. Once it is apart you can see what is binding.
I'm aware of doing it that way, but decided to ask first.

Okay, back to the bench and using the above method got the slide off.
As suspected, the culprit. The purple thread lock I put on it in 2-96 decided to release. Cleaned it and applied thread lock.
78DBAD97-9AEC-4E99-89F3-5D03A3D8BB90_1_201_a.jpeg
Disassembly can be accomplished as in the video, but reassembly requires a bushing wrench. There is no way a finger or pin is going to override the spring to get the plug beneath the bushing. At least there isn't one I know of.
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299822EC-D6CC-48BE-B0FC-A1102A6B588B_1_201_a.jpeg
Super glue has the wrench working, but I'm going to order an aluminum or steel replacement.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Turn the bushing the right direction. It will not clear the button if you turn it wrong. That sounds like what you did
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Ian is right. I was confusing my Wilson Combat, which has compensator and no bushing with my Springfield which is not compensated, but has a full length rod. His post made me go look and I ended up taking my Springfield apart because it was bugging me that I did not remember the details.

I think I know what you did wrong. When you depress the bored out spring plug you were letting the slide move back. It only needs to move back a tiny amount and the plug cannot be compressed far enough to rotate the bushing. Mine came apart easy enough, but I struggled to put it back together. Same thing happened, I could not depress the plug far enough to rotate the bushing. When I stopped trying, I felt the slide move forward ever so slightly in my hand. When I kept it from moving, the plug depressed far enough and the bushing rotated.

Thanks for jogging my aging memory, Ian.

Had not handled that pistol in quite some time. God I love the feel of a 1911 in my hand. Guess I gotta make a trip to the range.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Turn the bushing the right direction. It will not clear the button if you turn it wrong. That sounds like what you did
Nope, was rotating it the correct direction -- clockwise.


Ian is right. I was confusing my Wilson Combat, which has compensator and no bushing with my Springfield which is not compensated, but has a full length rod. His post made me go look and I ended up taking my Springfield apart because it was bugging me that I did not remember the details.

I think I know what you did wrong. When you depress the bored out spring plug you were letting the slide move back. It only needs to move back a tiny amount and the plug cannot be compressed far enough to rotate the bushing. Mine came apart easy enough, but I struggled to put it back together. Same thing happened, I could not depress the plug far enough to rotate the bushing. When I stopped trying, I felt the slide move forward ever so slightly in my hand. When I kept it from moving, the plug depressed far enough and the bushing rotated.

Thanks for jogging my aging memory, Ian.

Had not handled that pistol in quite some time. God I love the feel of a 1911 in my hand. Guess I gotta make a trip to the range.
When using the wrench, with one hand on the slide and the other using the wrench, the slide is immobile and the bushing rotates.

The problem was the two piece guide rod unscrewing.
 

Ian

Notorious member
So the rod was too long to clear the swing of the bushing because it came unscrewed a couple of threads.

I just got back from the gun room. I happened to notice the Ace Custom .45 Super sitting on the rack while I was scanning for something else and remembered it has a full length guide rod. Turns out it's one piece and won't let the bushing swing, either BUT.....it does have the spring capture hole.

To take it down the easy way since it has a 3.6 Kiloton dual slide spring, rack the slide to lock, insert bent paperclip, let the slide down easy on the paperclip (the front edge of the guide rod bushing is what stops on the paperclip), remove slide the normal way, remove barrel bushing, remove barrel, then slip out the captured spring and guide rod assembly. Don't drop the assembly as it will probably shear the paperclip, put your eye out, take off the cat's hind leg, and put a hole in the ceiling after it explodes.
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Well I learned a couple things. Did not know they made a 1911 with a full length guide rod.
Something new every day.
 
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462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
So the rod was too long to clear the swing of the bushing because it came unscrewed a couple of threads.
The spring and plug wouldn't compress enough, because of the unscrewed and thus longer guide rod, to allow the bushing to rotate. Just now thinking, I don't recall the plug compressing at all.
 

Ian

Notorious member
The rod on my Ace is nearly flush to the front where the hole passes through, same problem you had but it's permanent and made that way. Wrench will never work. It's confusing because the thin edge of the guide rod bushing is still checkered like you're supposed to push it in with your finger but no way because the rod sticks out too far.

Are you sure your guide rod isn't cross-drilled for a takedown pin? Lock the slide back and study the rod for a hole showing about 1/4" forward of the front of the guide rod bushing. Take a jumbo Gem clip, straighten it out, bend about 1/8" of the tip at a sharp 90⁰ with pliers, slide it up along the guide rod, drop the bent tip into the cross drilled hole in the rod, and gently let the slide down until the bushing stops on the paperclip.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Are you sure your guide rod isn't cross-drilled for a takedown pin?
There is not a cross-drilled hole.

I wouldn't've had any problem if I hadn't've forced the matter and just removed the slide as a complete assembly. As I posted, I knew of doing it that way, but my stubbornness overruled the situation. Still, though, a wrench is required for reassembly.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Well that sucks. How about the edge of a table? Basswood popsicle stick? Empty cartridge case? I keep forgetting you've had your fingers and hands operated on a bunch of times and may not have the strength to depress the guide rod bushing against spring pressure with just that little thin ring of metal to work with. It would bother me not being able to field strip and reassemble a 1911 without having the wrench available. Brownell's sells a one-piece guide rod and plug kit with the cross hole for takedown without a wrench:
296-000-081WB
FULL-LENGTH GUIDE ROD, SS GOVT.
Mfr Part: 10400

It's $27, if you were going to buy a wrench anyway, this will save you having to spend money on that since you'll only need a paperclip for a tool.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
I keep forgetting you've had your fingers and hands operated on a bunch of times and may not have the strength to depress the guide rod bushing against spring pressure with just that little thin ring of metal to work with.
I bought the gun in February '96 and even then couldn't depress the spring/plug deep enough.
Empty cartridge case?
Wasn't inventive enough to think of it, but tried it and it works.
Thank you!!

Now that I'm smarter and the super glue repaired wrench is working, I won't be ordering a new wrench nor a holed guide rod.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Now that I'm smarter and the super glue repaired wrench is working, I won't be ordering a new wrench nor a holed guide rod.
You could make an aluminum wrench using the Brownell's as a pattern. Drill and some files would get it done in no time.

I have two of the plastic Brownell's wrenches because they wear with use.

Glad you figured it out.

Never noticed that the rods were threaded to the back portion. Now I'll have to go look again. What I did notice when I pulled the Springfield apart last night was the shock buff was in pieces. Probably a combination of abuse and age.
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
What is the advantage to a full length rod? What does it do that the original doesn’t?
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
What is the advantage to a full length rod? What does it do that the original doesn’t?
From what I've read, the full length rod has two advantages and benefits.
1. The added weight is said to reduce recoil.
2. The added length is said to eliminate the spring from becoming misshaped and binding, and, thereby, reducing slide resistance.

I suppose there are shooters who are 100% certain the advantages and benefits are real, and I suppose there are shooters who are 100% certain the advantages and benefits are non-existent.

All I know is, the gun is a hoot to shoot, and after almost 27 years and many thousands of rounds this was its only problem.