1911 problem

[Pistolero]

I won and AMT Hardballer in the early 80s in a pistol match. It was considered a wonder, basically
a stainless steel Gold Cup when SS guns just didn't exist. SS was considered a very new and unusual
material, I think the Model 60 S&W was about it for SS guns. I shot it a bit and decided it wasn't
really very well made. It ran OK, but was roughly finished internally and I sold it off while they were
still considered a desirable gun. Not saying they were junk, but they were not up to the fit and
finish of my real Gold Cups which I used in competition. I think they were still figuring out
what alloys of SS to use, and that split bbl and sheared lugs was probably due to the wrong
alloy being chosen while they were learning what would work and what wouldn't.
The carbon steel 1911s are stout guns. I have several in the range between 50 and 100 K rounds
through them and they are in good shape. I have no doubt that some have run into the
200K range without serious problems.

My experience with dbl charges in 1911s is that the failure will usually blow out the brass
at the unsupported feed ramp area, crack the grips, blow the mag floorplate off and bulge
the mag sides into the frame cutouts enough to make it a bit difficult to extract the mag
body. No real harm to the gun beyond the grips, and sometimes they are unharmed
and the mag is intact. The only failed bbl I ever saw was a Barstow which launched
the entire upper right portion of the chamber (the part seen in the ejection port when
the gun is closed) far enough that we never saw it again. A SS bbl, and a double charge.
Not down on Barstow bbls, they are really accurate ones, but apparently, at least that one,
not up to double charges.

Bill

 

[CZ93X62]

The test guns were all ex-GI made by Colt. I got the impression from the criminalists that it wasn't their first such rodeo. All were rabid gun hobbyists in their own right.

 

[Ian]

Allen, I would have sat down and cried during those tests. What a shame. But, invaluable knowledge gained, or RE-gained most likely as I'm sure JMB could have told you exactly what would happen with 230 ball double-charged with BE in a Colt, if only he could speak from beyond the grave.

but they were not up to the fit and
finish of my real Gold Cups which I used in competition.

I sold off a NIB SS Colt GCNM pistol from my FIL's estate, with relish. It was the sloppiest, most ill-fitted POS 1911 I ever saw and made RIAs look like Singers. It was a late '90s vintage IIRC, no wonder the company went teats-up a few years later. My Colt Commander from the same era is also SS and a fit disaster which I have yet to fully mitigate, but have improved much with a file and an aftermarket barrel.

 

[CZ93X62]

When the Court orders destruction, and agency has few options--melt them, cut them up, or take them into service. In 1982, autopistols were not on a lot of agencies' radars yet, and these were pretty worn-out examples in any case. A lot of weapons trainers still had the idiot idea that the 1911A1 was a hard-to-manage, inaccurate handgun. At the time, Folks Like Us that enjoyed and believed in the 45 ACP/1911A1 as felon repellent were voices in the wilderness--Col. Cooper comes to mind here.

About a year later, I was sent to Rangemaster's School. One of the things I did fairly well, as it turned out.

 

[Pistolero]

My two Gold Cups were bought in 1980, and were really well made. IMO, not dramatically
tighter than other well made 1911s, before or after, but good solid guns that ran well.
I think if one was extremely serious about bullseye competition, further tightening of the rails
a bit and maybe a more tightly fitted conventional bushing instead of the Mk IV style spring
finger bushing which was standard at that point would have tightened things up a bit. But they
were both totally reliable guns, shot well for many tens of thousands of rounds. One was,
foolishly, sold and one is on my nightstand as my critical response gun since I am 100% certain
that it will run and hit where I point it. In many years of competition, I broke one extractor,
one sight pin, and at the 60,000 round point on one, an Elliason sight broke the blade at the
rear, not fixable, so got a new Elliason sight. I believe I eventually replaced the bushing with
a solid one.....but would have to go and check, it would have happened 25-30 years ago, and
my memory is unclear. Friends had those Mk IV spring finger bushings occasionally break a
finger, and seems like I at least considered replacing it, and may have done it. I know I did
replace one on a GC for a friend.

Colt did get some real fools in charge, and at one point these mental midgets actually decided
that civilian sales were not something that they wanted to do any more. Then the government
sales dried up and the fools were in deep trouble.

Later owners brought in a well known 1911 gunsmith to help them get their products back in
line, and I talked to him about them using a part a friend and I were making for one of their
models. Ultimately, we couldn't lower our production costs enough to suit them, and they
went in another direction, eliminated the product that we had parts to fix their problem.
They did improve the quality quite a bit at that point, but eventually the gunsmith was let
go and they went on their way, and he on his, to continuing success.

It would be a shame to see good guns like that destroyed, but courts and antigun folks are
not sensible, they just do what their ideas tell them to. That I or others disagree, sways them
usually about zero.

Bill

 

[fiver]

the irony about destroying 70 year old 1911's is they are still making them, and the new ones will also last 70 years.
in effect the anti's are just extending the period of time those guns will be around.

 

[creosote]

My stainless enhanced colt from the late 90's, front site fell off before I put 20 rounds through it. Two of the pem nuts (grip screw bushings) are crooked, and the plunger tube is loose. I had John Jardine Do his magic on it, but I still can't hit the broad side of a barn with it.
The commander he worked on makes up for it though.

 

[Ian]

Most of my 1911s have "Kimber" stamped on their slides and were fabulous out of the box. All except the aluminum-framed tac pro II which required many hours of polishing the trigger stirrup slots to get the little hitch out of the trigger pull and be the perfect 2 lb crisp pull that all the other parts otherwise let it be. Many thousands of rounds through two different Kimbers and they're still tight, amazingly accurate, and rock-solid with nothing more than routine maintenance. I love it when a tool just works right out of the box and doesn't need a bunch of fixing or de-flucking of factory "apprentice" work to be what it should.

 

[Pistolero]

Yeah, but Ian, "everybody knows" that those MIM parts in the Kimber innards are just worthless
junk. I had another guy tell me that fairy tale at the gun show this weekend, although
he was talking about the S&W MIM parts. "Some kinda composite plastic metal parts, really
terrible, the only way you can use a new S&W is to replace all those internal parts with real
metal parts." Yeah, right. The MIM S&W parts are the most consistent quality parts that they
have ever made. Not the prettiest, with ejector pin marks and parting lines visible on some,
but really consistently proper shape, and good performance.

I put a 2 lb trigger on my first Kimber, Classic Custom, in about '97 or '98, whenever it was new, and
it is the same today, around 25K rounds later, probably more. Just nicely broken in.

I did advise friends to avoid Colts for a number of years. The last 5 or 8 or so the ones I have
handled seemed to be past all that bad time. Kinda like the early 80s for S&W, they shipped
some good guns but also some really messed up junk in the Lear-Seigler years.

But, I still say the Dan Wesson 1911s are the class of the field until you get up to the Wilson,
or Ed Brown, or Les Baer guns for twice the money and more, compared to the DWs.

Bill

 

[fiver]

I think when that guy bought all the old colt stuff and their building too, then proceeded to produce colt products stamped USFA on the side for 1/3 the price and twice the quality.
it finally got their attention.
it's too bad he didn't follow through and build 1911's before making that stupid zip 22 and quit making the other stuff.

 

[Pistolero]

Yeah, it is really difficult to reconcile that ridiculous, stupid, monumentally un-ergonomic
.22 Zip with the beautiful, really solid USFA copies of the Colt SAA.

In case anybody doesn't know about the Zip....

I saw one at a gun show, had no idea what it was, looked like some sort of a weird AR attachement.
Then the vendor showed me what it was, and how to hold it......it just went downhill from there.

Bill

 

[Brad]

I still kick myself for never buying a USFA when they were making them.

 

[freebullet]

You should get a zip Brad. It kinda looks like a star wars weapon.

 

[Brad]

You should get a zip Brad. It kinda looks like a star wars weapon.

Wow Bruce, that hurts.

 

[freebullet]

Geez, I didn't mean to hurt you, Brad. Just thought it would be an easy sell to the wife, give you a break from staring at the classic lines of the levers, & be a certain conversation piece.

 

[Brad]

She is laughing at me right now.
She does appreciate the Win 92 at least. She does t care for more of the others for some reason.
Now a 300 BLK, she likes that. A Ruger 9mm would keep me busy loading and casting.

 

[freebullet]

Don't do it. You'll be investigating automated casting machines & looking for lead more than ever...trust.

 

[fiver]

the only problem with 9mm carbines is they don't come with 50 round magazines.
more fun than a 22, not as much blast or recoil as a 30 carbine and they are generally accurate.

 

[waco]

A Ruger 9mm would keep me busy loading and casting.

It's crazy the way those thing eat ammo...and I have not even switched to over to run the 30 round Glock mags yet...

 

[Pistolero]

Which is why we should stick to .22 RF semiauto carbines, don't have to load the ammo or
pick up the brass.

I have two USFAs, a Rodeo in .45 Colt and a convertible .44 Spl with a .44-40 cylinder. It is a truly
beautiful pistol, almost too pretty to shoot, ALMOST. But I haven't shot it a lot.
Prices have gone nuts since USFA when belly up. A real shame that the owner lost his mind.

You can get her a Ruger 9mm, Brad, just make it a SP101.

Bill