2 Part lube question 1. LBT soft or/vs Ben's red. 2. BLL

[Michael]

Being new here I have noticed many of you use Ben's Red, obviously good stuff. There in lays my dilemma, I probably will never need to by lube again partly due to PC-ing. Would a person be better served staying with LBT soft or giving BR a try and changing over. As far as any expense involvd, making BR is hardly an issue aside from time and remodeling the wife's kitchen after I am done. LBT, the money was spent quite a while ago. Kinda a wash aside from the kitchen thing......

BLL- rather than trying to formulate my own opinion on why it does what it does, please fill me in on the details.

Many thanks for the feed back.

 

[Matt]

I used LBT blue soft many years ago exclusively. It was the best high velocity bullet lube (1800-2200 fps) and was very good for low velocity rille and pistol too. I tried the “hard” LBT thinking it would be easier to handle and store bullets. It was easier to handle as long as you had a heater for your lubrisizer. In my experience the hard Blue was poor bullet lubricant like all other “hard” lubes I’ve tried. Mr Smith claimed that using his soft lube would remove leading by shooting bullets lubed with Blue soft. I found this to be pretty much true. I stopped using LBT blue soft when it became difficult to obtain. At the time I ran out of LBT lube I discovered Ben’s Red. I had been dabbling with Lyman and RCBS lubes to. Nothing was as good as LBT. I bit the bullet and made my first batch of Ben’s Red. It was a revelation. All ingredients are easy to find. Making it is relatively easy and uncomplicated. It’s inexpensive and simple molds give you hollow sticks. And it works. No leading in magnum revolvers, all fouling stays soft. No gas checks needed. In rifles up to 1800 fps no leading. In a couple of .308 and .30/06 rifles I never clean. Bright shiny bores. Good accuracy. I cannot say whether accuracy is better than LBT because back then I didn’t shoot groups. I zeroed and accepted 2-3 inch groups and shot a lot of rocks and other natural marks. Ben’s Red has allowed me to shoot a lot of sub moa 100 yard 5 shot groups including 4 group aggregates. I’ve shot a number of 10 shot groups under an inch. This has been possible with various cartridges from .222 to .375 H &H,
but mostly in .308 and .30/06 probably because I shoot those cartridges the most. It also works from about 10 degrees to 100+. It’s messy but requires no heater. I use plastic cartridge trays and boxes to separate bullets for storage. The bases must be wiped to prevent powder contamination. But performance is out standing. Frequently best accuracy comes from only filing one grease groove in rifles. Use every groove available for magnum handguns. Standard velocity doesn’t need everything filled. Sorry for being long winded. I know I’m an absolute fanboy of Ben’s Red.

 

[358156 hp]

I think LBT Soft Blue is just the latest incarnation of Paco Kellys "Apache Blue" lube. I have a lot of LBT Soft on hand, left over from my smokey lube days. The only hard lube I ever liked was Thompson "Blue Angel". It really worked well for the hard kicking stuff I once doted on. I seems to shoot indoors now more than outdoors, and smoky lubes aren't really appreciated by my fellow shooters, so I mostly powdercoat everything.

 

[Matt]

Ben’s Liquid Lube is a faster drying tumble lube that Lee Liquid Alox or 45-45-10. I use both for specific uses. I think I like Ben’s best because it dries faster and leaves less buildup in seating dies. Ben’s Liquid dries like the “dry” lubes that various manufacturers use or used on swaged bullets that I bought by the tens of thousands in my youth. 45-45-10 stays a little tacky. I’ve never had straight Lee liquid really dry. I found BLL effective on .38 wadcutters with covetional or tumble lubes grooves. I tumble them as cast and load them without sizing. I do the same with 9mm bullets, specifically the Lyman 356402 and the Lee 124 gr tumble lube design. Two coats as cast and load. No leading at about 1200 fps in several handguns and a cabine. Good light bullets for light .38 special loads too. I do the same thing with any .45 ACP bullet. Again good accuracy and no leading in several pistols.
In rifles I use 45-45-10 on a couple of plain base bullets because I used it before Ben formulated his liquid lube. The number of rifles bullets I shoot is dwarfed by pistol and haven’t really experimented to compare 45-45-10 with BLL but I’m guessing the results would be the same.

 

[JonB]

BLL and 45-45-10 cure/dry in about the same amount of time for me.
But I don't doubt Matt's claims, mostly because it seems as many people that make and post about 45-45-10, there are as many variations of the recipe directions, mine included.
Also, I use heat to apply both BLL and 45-45-10, which aides in speeding up dry time. While they do get dry to the touch for me in about 20 minutes, it's best to let them cure overnight. When I do that, I never get buildup in the seater die with either.

Michael,
BLL (like 45-45-10) is designed to put a thinner coat of Alox on the bullet and to dry quicker. Alox itself is a real good bullet lube, that's really all you need to know about "why it does what it does".

 

[fiver]

if you kick the 10 up to about 50, and heat the bullets before coating, they dry in about 20 minutes in front of a fan.
the only reason 10 was used was....... spoiler alert.
because it was the minimum amount that would let the lube flow properly.
if it ain't drying quickly and builds up your using too much, try thinning it and applying it with a fork.

as a side note:
the original [first as in before it was known as 45/45-10] batch contained some bees wax, and that's how i still make it.

 

[Ian]

My BLL dries in 20 minutes flat if the humidity is below about 50% and temperature above 70F. More paint thinner and a touch of beeswax, a little less on the LLA and a little more on the JPW also does well, but the liquid lubes are a lot more smokey and not too much faster for me to futz with than powder coat so I pretty much quit using them.

LBT Blue Soft. I have a bunch of it and it gums up the barrel. It does shoot well, but when it congeals oh my does it fling that first shot or three out of the group. It is MUCH better if cut about 20% with Vaseline.

Ben's Red is fine for the vast majority of anything a person needs regarding bullet lube. Some have gone to overcoating Ben's Red with BLL and I've seen some mighty fine groups posted here from those who do that.

 

[L Ross]

My BLL dries in 20 minutes flat if the humidity is below about 50% and temperature above 70F. More paint thinner and a touch of beeswax, a little less on the LLA and a little more on the JPW also does well, but the liquid lubes are a lot more smokey and not too much faster for me to futz with than powder coat so I pretty much quit using them.

LBT Blue Soft. I have a bunch of it and it gums up the barrel. It does shoot well, but when it congeals oh my does it fling that first shot or three out of the group. It is MUCH better if cut about 20% with Vaseline.

Ben's Red is fine for the vast majority of anything a person needs regarding bullet lube. Some have gone to overcoating Ben's Red with BLL and I've seen some mighty fine groups posted here from those who do that.

That's my system for lubing now. Bottom groove filled with Ben's Red and then an over coat of BLL. 10 or 12 drops of BLL dripped from an old Lee Liquid Alox bottle per fifty .30 caliber bullets in an old Cool Whip tub, swirled and dumped out on an old window screen and allowed to dry. Dump the dried ones in a peanut butter jar for storage.

I don't know if I'll ever attain true 1 MOA groups. I shoot 10 or 20 shot groups with my good cast bullet .308s and .30-06s and get down around an inch and a quarter. I do exactly the same with a few very good .22's and decent ammo so I'm happy.

 

[Ben]

It does my heart good to see all of you using BLL and Ben's Red.
Use and enjoy the results.

Good Shooting ! !
Best to you,
Ben

 

[quicksylver]

I can't believe it's taken me 17 days to find this thread!. but i'm glad I finially did. I too am a big fan of Ben;s Red, easy to make easy, to use. I used to use it in conjunction with BLL ,but found I was getting lube purging with my rifle rounds, way, too much lube,I have found that Ben's Red being so tacky automatically lubes the nose of the bullets when handleing them. I've also woked out a routine just prior to shooting them. in my case I hold the round in my right hand and rotate it while I take my thumb and wipe the round from the shoulder up towards the nose, this removes any excess lube from the top of the case and some exposed lube from the grooves above the case and lightly coats the upper portion of the bullet. best of all worlds, conventionally lubed bullet with just a hit of lube on the nose with out any additional work or LL and no purging.The other plus for me is that after each firing all I have to do is wipe the residue off the neck of my cases with a paper towel or rag and I 'm ready to reload OH! I also only clean my Rifles after about 75 rounds by running a well worn Bore snake through it twice.i don't FL size very often but next time I am going to try it as a sizing wax, WHY NOT ? RIGHT! P.S. It works great on bullets meant for LL Dan S.

 

[Ben]

Dan,

The groups you've fired over the years with the lube speak volumes about what can be done with the lube.

Ben

 

[fiver]

you could also up the bees wax [10% is a good amount] and not have the lube go everywhere.

 

[Michael]

Thank you all of those who have chimed in, all good info. If anyone has more to add, please don't be shy.

 

[Rally]

I’m using Bens Red exclusively, rifle, pistol, and shotgun. I’ve tested it to -23 and worked fine. Scorched the first double batch I made, and being frugal (cheap), use that batch now as a lube on shotgun slugs and buckshot. I thought Bens recipe was a little soft so added another 6 ounces of Beeswax to a double batch. Works great and don’t need a heater on my sizer.
I got a metal syrup container w/ lid and heat that on a hot plate and pour the lube into my sizer.
I don’t PC and don’t intend to, so my Estate will likely have some Bens Red to sell.

 

[Thumbcocker]

I have been very pleased with Ben's red in everything. No leading in .308, .30-06, .223 and pistols.

 

[35 shooter]

Been away for awhile, but still check in from time to time.
Been using Ben’s Red for years in rifle and pistol in cold and heat year round.
No leading from mild to wild( 500 FPS. to 2600 FPS. Best accuracy in my rifles(308 and 35 Whelen)seems to be 1800 to 2400 FPS.

As soon as BLL came out, I dove on it and have’nt looked back since. I use 1 to 2 coats for pistol and 3 coats for rifle loads.
What really drew me to BLL was the fact it shot the same loads I used with Ben’s Red with equal accuracy and is so easy and quick to mix.
This is with the original Johnson’s liquid floor wax... i’ve never tried the lundmark version as I still have about 10 cans of the Johnson’s.

As to why BLL works with high velocity loads... I have no idea lol... I just know it works and that’s good enough for me.
Probably something to do with some of the co polymers in the wax, but whatever, BLL can take high velocity shooting right in stride.... just use 3 light coats for rifle shooting and let each coat dry before applying the next coat.

One of these days I need to try the lundmark wax version of BLL to see how it compares to the Johnson’s at high velocity.
At this point in time I have no idea though. Has anyone else tried the Lundmark liquid wax at over 2200 FPS yet?

 

[Spudwrench]

Will a small piece of beeswax mix into my newly made batch of BLL if I drop it into the bottle and shake really well. New guy here and I love to experiment with lubes after casting. I can only tumble lube, since I do not own any type of lubrisizer. This is a great site for for folks like me.

 

[L Ross]

Will a small piece of beeswax mix into my newly made batch of BLL if I drop it into the bottle and shake really well. New guy here and I love to experiment with lubes after casting. I can only tumble lube, since I do not own any type of lubrisizer. This is a great site for for folks like me.

Welcome aboard Spudwrench.

I'd forego the bee's wax. Ben fiddled around and created a pretty darned good tumble lube as it is. I don't think the bees wax will dissolve and blend into the liquid. But do drop a small round ball or ball bearing into your container to help agitate the lube. I noticed some settling years ago and an agitator ball eliminates that.

 

[Ian]

BLL made with One Step per Ben's recipe needs no other ingredients.

The prior experiments using paste wax that J.D. and Lamar did worked a little better with 5-10% beeswax melted in at 200⁰F.

 

[JonB]

Will a small piece of beeswax mix into my newly made batch of BLL if I drop it into the bottle and shake really well. New guy here and I love to experiment with lubes after casting. I can only tumble lube, since I do not own any type of lubrisizer. This is a great site for for folks like me.

I'm not gonna tell you if beeswax will or won't, dissolve/blend into a room temp batch of BLL, But I will ask you WHY?
What problems are you trying to solve?